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gm5735 Offline
#21 Posted : Wednesday, 19 November 2014 2:28:10 AM(UTC)
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We always do things our own way down here in Mexico, you know that.
I'll be interested to see what plant Gerards 307 manual HK came from.
Gerard Offline
#22 Posted : Wednesday, 19 November 2014 7:04:20 AM(UTC)
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My car is Brisbane made. I don't recall seeing a paint daub on the gearbox when it was removed, mainly surface rust and dirt. The gearbox has since been cleaned up. At the moment I cannot get a close look at the gearbox as it is packed in a freight box but will try and clear out some of the other parts and look for a paint daub as mentioned by gm5735.
gm5735 Offline
#23 Posted : Wednesday, 19 November 2014 8:10:55 AM(UTC)
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At first I thought it may have something to do with the speedo gear colour, but unfortunately for that theory the pink driven gear is used for 3.36 diffs and 7.35 x 14 tyres, and not 3.36 and D70 tyres, which use a green driven gear.
It looks like this:

http://s1273.photobucket...ing_zps9c215c0b.jpg.html
Silverfox Offline
#24 Posted : Thursday, 27 November 2014 10:59:55 AM(UTC)
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Warwick Yellow. It would be nice if you could mention your first name.
For your info I have an engine part loaned to me by a person who's words are beyond reproach when it comes to HK/T/Gs. It is the correct original shade of red. I will gat some engine enamel made matching the colour exactly and I will be happy to send you a small sample should you need it.

Regarding values. It is good to see some solid foundation coming back to the HK. It went for several years somewhat undervalued. I bid on the Warwick Yellow car which sold at the Shannons Sydney auction some years ago and it was not in the same condition as the Blue car. I since bought a better (than the blue car) Picardy red car and have been very happy with it. HKGTS 327 Monaros are the "GTHO" of Monaros and as such should enjoy high value. Cheers Nick
"HOLDEN MONARO. OUT TO DRIVE YOU WILD!"
HK1837 Offline
#25 Posted : Thursday, 27 November 2014 7:00:37 PM(UTC)
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I'd call the HK GTS327 the GT equivalent Nick, as the XR GT was created because Ford found out what was coming from GMH. There was no GT-HO when the HK was around. Ford created the GT-HO because of what happened in 1968, and it is a direct competitor for the HT GTS350M.
GMH had no same class car as the phase II and III HOs. They designed some but never produced them.
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detective Offline
#26 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 12:25:33 AM(UTC)
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...my thoughts on this subject tell me that if your high performance car can be optioned with an auto...well that has to de-value the whole marque, if only by a small degree....

....the true muscle car would never have an auto in its options line up and luckily Ford and GM-H had three of each that fitted that bill....the GTHO's Phase I, II and III and the GTR XU-1, L34 and A9X respectively......

Edited by user Friday, 28 November 2014 12:32:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Dr Terry Offline
#27 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 1:28:16 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by detective
...my thoughts on this subject tell me that if your high performance car can be optioned with an auto...well that has to de-value the whole marque, if only by a small degree....

....the true muscle car would never have an auto in its options line up and luckily Ford and GM-H had three of each that fitted that bill....the GTHO's Phase I, II and III and the GTR XU-1, L34 and A9X respectively......



You'll spark a lively debate with that one, but you couldn't option an auto in an HK GTS 327 or LC/LJ GTR either.

Wasn't there a few GT-HOs built with auto also ??

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
detective Offline
#28 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 1:56:19 AM(UTC)
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...please excuse me fellas if i'm rusty on the details...i thought the HK GTS 327 had a Powerglide option?, and can remember a bloke saying how top gear in his Silver Mink one was stuffed, so he travelled everywhere in Low...even up to 90 MPH! LOL... (well that was his story anyway)

...i'm very happy to be corrected on all of this and maybe open up even further debate on these fantastic old jiggers...cheers

Edited by user Friday, 28 November 2014 1:58:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Dr Terry Offline
#29 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 2:19:03 AM(UTC)
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I don't believe GM-H ever built a production automatic HK GTS 327.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
detective Offline
#30 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 3:45:22 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Dr Terry for the clarification...although as we all know you can never really say NEVER (bloody dealers! LOL)....

...i s'pose that means the Holden camp had four dedicated manual models in their performance range and the Ford GTHO's with auto's?....any more info anyone?....cheers

Edited by user Friday, 28 November 2014 3:46:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#31 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 4:13:55 AM(UTC)
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The HT-HG GTS350 aren't really available with an auto option either, although when an auto 350 was specified it kept the same model number. The HT 350 auto GTS is really a V8 HT GTS auto with an optional 350 rather than a GTS350 with optional auto. The engine is very different, but it also loses lots of goodies so it is really just the same car as a V8 auto GTS (ie 307 auto) with a 350 and dual exhaust added. So to me the HT GTS350 (manual) is a standalone high performance car. It is a different to the auto version as a GT-HO is to a GT auto.
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detective Offline
#32 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 4:46:19 AM(UTC)
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...Hi HKI837 .. i believe the HT/G 350A was an 81837 option only ( Powerglide only?) so the idea that they were optioned up 80837's doesn't really add up to me...

... the HK GTS 327 came STANDARD with the four speed manual, although that still leaves a great big door open for the Powerglide as an option and i'm also pretty sure the 350 auto never got the rear end radius rods ?...

...my 81837 automatic HQ coupe has a single wheel Salisbury...the LSD was standard on the Muncie 4 speeds, which must have been a shift away from any GTS 327/350 having the LSD as standard fitment on the previous models....but it does show the moving can of worms that was corporate thinking at GM-H at the time..

...
detective Offline
#33 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 4:55:41 AM(UTC)
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...thanks for the info Byron .. i s'pose it's almost like splitting hairs, but it's probably unfortunate that GM-H deemed the 81837 GTS 350A as a brother to its muscular 4 speed sibling...still that's what happened.... and i reckon you're more than likely dead right about GM-H using the 80837 shells for the auto's
gm5735 Offline
#34 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 5:36:07 AM(UTC)
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I have to admire your bravery, detective. I would have thought the real test of a high performance car was that it actually had high performance, regardless of the transmission options available for it, or its lesser siblings.

The model number for the HK327, HT350 and HG350 were all 81837, as you have said, but the HT and HG had an auto option. The point Byron was making, accurately, was that the auto HT and HG 81837 owed more to the 307/308 version than the 350 manual. The auto was a lower compression 2 bolt main bearing block, different heads, less horsepower, lighter springs, shock absorbers etc etc. It also lacked the radius rods which I believe were fitted to all the manual V8 Monaros, and not just the 350 models.

I don't believe the A9X was anything very wonderful in the performance stakes compared to a standard V8 Torana of the day either. Wasn't it a pretty much standard 308, with the A9X designation more about suspension and bodywork changes for homologation purposes?

As I understand it there were a very few auto XW GTHO Phase 1s fitted with autos, but no authenticated Phase II or Phase III examples known to exist. The GTHO was, however a different model number to the garden variety Falcon GT.

Its about perception, I admit, but the fact remains that a HT or HG350 manual would suck the headlights out of a HK GTS327 (or a HQ81837 manual for that matter) in outright performance, so I can't relegate them to a lesser category just because there happened to be a auto version.
detective Offline
#35 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 5:56:03 AM(UTC)
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...i s'pose i've never been too shy of a friendly stoush gm5735 LOL....and i forgot to mention i don't reckon the 350A's got the 25 gallon fuel tank as standard fitment either. or the heavy front sway bar, or front disc thickness etc. etc...

...but let's not forget that the 350A's were a very love lorn breed....hence the lack of real research or detail regarding their nuts and bolts that held them together....

...i'm not a brave bloke, i just keep drawing on the fading memory cells, and in no way do i mean to ruffle any feathers...i guess i'm on a mission to learn a lot of obscure stuff from the various forum members and really love to see the amount of knowledge here and hope that no-one minds a bit of input from a bloke who's had his 350 for about 35 years .. cheers
gm5735 Offline
#36 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 6:34:53 AM(UTC)
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No worries Phil. It's all in fun, and there's nothing like a good stoush to get the jaded old men motivated to dash off a line or two.
I've had my HT81837 since 1979, so I'm a bit the same.
Yes, lots of special bits on 350M, which I glossed over with "etc etc", although I think the thicker discs were a change applied to nearly all the HG range and not just the 81837 manual.
Regards, Geoff.
HK1837 Offline
#37 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 6:42:27 AM(UTC)
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Slotted lightweight wheels too on all but the earliest HT GTS350M. 350 auto got the same tank as the 307 Auto.

Geoff read me right, I meant at HT GTS350 release the 350 auto only really had in common with the 350 manual the model number and the dual exhaust plus the thicker discs. The rest was as per a V8 GTS auto. Yes some bits were changed to suit the 350ci engine like radiator, auto calibration, throttle linkages etc, but essentially the 350 auto may as well have been an 837 auto with an optional engine. Rather than a 1837 with optional lower performance engine and auto but also a pile of deleted stuff.
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detective Offline
#38 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 7:30:27 AM(UTC)
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...one last little detail i think for the manual and auto 350 Monaro's was the 140 MPH speedo's....later to become a generic (across the range) KPH speedo??.....
Warren Turnbull Offline
#39 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 8:03:23 AM(UTC)
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here is my list of "performance/Special" vehicles that only come in Manual:

XR GT, GTHO I, II, III, IV. (never knew the GTHO I was available with auto).

EH S4, HK GTS 327, GTR LC, LJ, XU1 LC, LJ, L34, A9X, VN Group A.

Lets not forget some of the lesser cars also, Cortina GT, Brabham, GPack, HQ SS.

I agree with Byron, the auto versions should not always be considered as their engines were sometimes different to the Manual, were the ones you could get air conditining on etc. But lets also not forget the efforts of some of these cars in racing, take the XT GT at Bathurst, which outlasted most of the manuals.

Also my CV8Z manual is not as fast over the 1/4 as the auto version.

Warren
gm5735 Offline
#40 Posted : Friday, 28 November 2014 8:21:15 AM(UTC)
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I'm fairly sure all the HT + HG GTS dashes were the same, with a 140 MPH speedo. I didn't think km/h speedos came in until HQ, in 1973.
Also only 350 manuals had a 3" tailshaft. Heavier rear springs than autos were fitted, as per other V8 manuals.
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