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MJD Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 12 October 2022 1:02:45 PM(UTC)
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Hi All, i have a HT Monaro with plates that state it was released as a Holden V8 ( 80837M )
I have an engine with number 308 cast on side, but has cast date of K19.
My understanding is this is 1st October 1969, but people are telling me that it should have HP cast on side instead of numbers 308 ??
any idea how i determine this ??

ALSO, what would be matching cast numbers on cylinder heads for this engine ??

thanks in advance

Edited by user Wednesday, 12 October 2022 1:06:35 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 12 October 2022 4:09:40 PM(UTC)
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Cast date numbers can be all over the place, so I wouldn't get too concerned about cast date numbers on the heads. Just get the right heads for HT-HG which are those without the accessory hole boss at the top. From memory the HT-HG 253/308 head was 7449033. The intake manifold is very similar to a HQ one as well, just has an extra hole drilled and tapped for the heater hose.

It is hit and miss with HP and 308. The first 308's were very low volume as they were only in HT Brougham, these are where most of the HP cast marked blocks are from. When it gets closer to 308 being used across the range (end of 307) GMH added more patterns with 308 on them so they could build more 308 engines, they kept using the older HP patterns for a while. So there is a crossover where engines can have either. I think this started around late September. If the 308H engine number is original and it has K19 on it with 308 then no-one has changed it, it is how GMH built it.
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MJD Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 12 October 2022 5:27:05 PM(UTC)
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OK thanks for that

OK so am i correct to assume for my HT GTS V8 Monaro with MODEL HT80837M and build date 4/70 it is correct to have
A block with an engine with cast date of ( K 1 9 ) and it could have EITHER large casting of numbers 308 OR letters HP on the side ??

I just want to clarify what engine should be in this car

thanks for your help
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 12 October 2022 5:42:28 PM(UTC)
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I never said anything about a 4/70 GTS. How you described the engine is fine but very unlikely that it would be found in a 4/70 GTS originally. In most cases a 4/70 V8 GTS engine will have 253 or 308 on the side and be cast in 1970.

Yours must be an Acacia Ridge build with that model line and it also means it was a manual, and most manual HT V8 GTS were 253. 308 manual was a pretty rare combination in HT GTS. It is easy to pick though as it will have had a Salisbury rear axle whereas a standard HT V8 GTS will have had a banjo rear axle behind either M21 (standard Saginaw), M35 ('glide) or in very late examples M40 (Trimatic) transmissions.

The engine number on the 308 will tell you roughly what time frame it was installed into a car.
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MJD Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 12 October 2022 5:57:42 PM(UTC)
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my HT does have a chev 10 bolt diff, how do i tell if it is original or 10 Bolt diff was put in afterwards ??
this will assist with identifying what you said about mine potentially being original 308 release ??

Also the car has a Saginaw fitted with clutch fork on passenger side, but that too could have been fitted later ??



Engine Number is 308H11801
Cast date K19
308 on side of block
Holden bolt pattern ( NON chev pattern )

so would it be possibly this motor would suit the 4/70 car build ???

or would a 308 in car build 4/70 have an early 1970 cast date ( would K19 be too late ) ??

thanks again

Edited by user Wednesday, 12 October 2022 6:07:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, 12 October 2022 6:41:43 PM(UTC)
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Salisbury cars have a hump in the floor and the tank above the diff centre. Banjo are flat in the same area.

Saginaws behind Holden V8 were right hand clutch fork not left, with mechanical clutch setup (not hydraulic). There should be a linkage clearance pressing along the passenger side of the transmission tunnel for a Saginaw fitted car. Most HT V8 GTS were 253 and M21 Saginaw. Then there is an odd mix of 307 powerglide, 253 powerglide, 253 Trimatic, 308 manual, 308 powerglide and 308 Trimatic. Given yours in 4/70 and it was a manual it will have been 253 or 308 with M21 Saginaw.

All 253 and 308 are Holden pattern until late in 1974.

308H11801 will be from an engine originally put in a car in 1969, probably November. I don't have a huge amount of records from that timeframe but it definitely won't be from a 4/70 car.

Normally a 4/70 complianced HT V8 with a 253 or 308 will have an engine cast sometime between February and April, normally within a few weeks of the car being assembled but sometimes it can be a few months in rare cases.
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kevrev Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, 12 October 2022 7:11:09 PM(UTC)
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My friend's HT 308 Monaro was built around November/December 1969, engine number is 308H130xx. This is a 2 tag car so it must be pre Jan 70
No HP on the side of the block, it has 308 cast in it.Engine block is K15 9, heads are K21 9 (Oct 21 1969), J2 9 (Nov 2 1969)
Hope this helps.
Cheers Kevin
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#8 Posted : Thursday, 13 October 2022 8:07:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: kevrev Go to Quoted Post
My friend's HT 308 Monaro was built around November/December 1969, engine number is 308H130xx. This is a 2 tag car so it must be pre Jan 70
No HP on the side of the block, it has 308 cast in it.Engine block is K15 9, heads are K21 9 (Oct 21 1969), J2 9 (Nov 2 1969)
Hope this helps.
Cheers Kevin


J2 9 would be September 2, 1969.
L2 9 would be November 2, 1969.
MJD Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 13 October 2022 7:48:13 PM(UTC)
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Thanks everyone for input and knowledge.
regarding floor hump above Diff, how do i send or post a photo so i can get opinions on whether hump is original or after market modification ???
to me it looks a bit agricultural, so could be original ??

i would be keen to send a pic and get opinions, but how ??
HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, 13 October 2022 8:08:13 PM(UTC)
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Add images to your albums and then include images in post from your album. If you click on your username you’ll see your profile, in the list at the top click on albums. You will have to create an album, the add photos to it.

You’ll need to be in a full post window, not a quick reply. And it might not work in the App, so click on “view full site” at the bottom. To get a full post you might have to post a dummy reply, then edit it. Hit the icon with the double mountains in it, directly to the left of the World and Chain icon. That is the post image from album button.
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MJD Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, 13 October 2022 10:21:55 PM(UTC)
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as mentioned, please find photo of tank hump.

this photo is taken ( looking downwards behind tank ) showing wall of tank and how tank bolts up to underneath to the hump in body of car.

It looks rough, but seems to have the original bolt in centre that is one of the bolts that hold tank in place

I guess it would be hard back then to get curve / hump in tank to match the curve / hump in floor.


BIG QUESTION - IS IT ORIGINAL ???


Edited by user Thursday, 13 October 2022 10:30:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, 14 October 2022 8:12:38 AM(UTC)
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That looks to be fabricated. An original looks like this, which is the boot of a Pagewood HT GTS350. Same hump though and the tank is made to suit.

I'm pretty sure the only difference between a 253 optioned HT GTS and a 308 one is the Salisbury rear axle. I'm pretty sure that the banjo and salisbury HT's have the same brake hose brackets unlike earlier HK.

Edited by user Friday, 14 October 2022 8:16:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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MJD Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, 14 October 2022 10:32:30 AM(UTC)
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Thanks,
yes that was what i thought
Until i got under car and found that it looks to be just like the shape in your photo.
underneath there is no join or signs of fabrication
it merely looks like someone has added the flat bar for strength, who knows why they would do that ??
HK1837 Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, 14 October 2022 12:17:43 PM(UTC)
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Exhaust hangers?
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MJD Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, 18 May 2023 12:14:55 AM(UTC)
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HI Kevin, what is the correct style seat fro 4/70 GTS Monaro ????
i note some have chrome side plates like they are out of a premier etc, others have just a painted arm ( redish morone colour ) like out of a LC torana.

which ones should be in a 4/70 308 GTS monaro ???
Dr Terry Offline
#16 Posted : Thursday, 18 May 2023 10:11:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MJD Go to Quoted Post
HI Kevin, what is the correct style seat fro 4/70 GTS Monaro ????
i note some have chrome side plates like they are out of a premier etc, others have just a painted arm ( redish morone colour ) like out of a LC torana.

which ones should be in a 4/70 308 GTS monaro ???


I believe that the chrome sided ones are the fully reclining seats & the ones with the painted arms are the standard non-reclining ones which just fold forward.

Either of these would be correct for a 4/70 HT GTS, because the AFAIK the recliners were optional.

Dr Terry
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#17 Posted : Thursday, 18 May 2023 12:08:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MJD Go to Quoted Post
HI Kevin, what is the correct style seat fro 4/70 GTS Monaro ????
i note some have chrome side plates like they are out of a premier etc, others have just a painted arm ( redish morone colour ) like out of a LC torana.

which ones should be in a 4/70 308 GTS monaro ???


I believe that the chrome sided ones are the fully reclining seats & the ones with the painted arms are the standard non-reclining ones which just fold forward.

Either of these would be correct for a 4/70 HT GTS, because the AFAIK the recliners were optional.

Dr Terry



FWIW.... my HT GTS 350 manual Monaro had reclining seats with chrome side adjuster plates (if I remember correctly)

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Dr Terry Offline
#18 Posted : Thursday, 18 May 2023 1:12:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MJD Go to Quoted Post
HI Kevin, what is the correct style seat fro 4/70 GTS Monaro ????
i note some have chrome side plates like they are out of a premier etc, others have just a painted arm ( redish morone colour ) like out of a LC torana.

which ones should be in a 4/70 308 GTS monaro ???


I believe that the chrome sided ones are the fully reclining seats & the ones with the painted arms are the standard non-reclining ones which just fold forward.

Either of these would be correct for a 4/70 HT GTS, because the AFAIK the recliners were optional.

Dr Terry



FWIW.... my HT GTS 350 manual Monaro had reclining seats with chrome side adjuster plates (if I remember correctly)



Yes, the reclining buckets were are commonplace option option in the HK/HT/HG series, especially Monaro GTS & Premier.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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