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Ausjacko Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 7 August 2018 1:29:47 PM(UTC)
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Hi All
I am wondering if anyone has a pic of how the spare wheel/tyre mounts in a HT Monaro. I have a bracket that mounts via a bolt on the drivers side rear inner boot area. I can't quite work out how this mounts with the tyre and jack pushing the wheel off the angled bracket on the rear chassis rail. AND I have pics that seem to show a rod inside the wheel rim the other end of which attaches to bracket where the jack pushes off; not sure if this set-up uses the bracket I have. Any help appreciated.
Cheers
Jacko
morsesworld Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 7 August 2018 5:17:49 PM(UTC)
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Hi AusJacko,

The only pictures that I have seen are located in a HG Owners Manual that was given with all the new cars. It has quite comprehensive Diagrams. I'm not sure if these are the pictures you are referring too.
Ausjacko Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 7 August 2018 5:48:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: morsesworld Go to Quoted Post
Hi AusJacko,

The only pictures that I have seen are located in a HG Owners Manual that was given with all the new cars. It has quite comprehensive Diagrams. I'm not sure if these are the pictures you are referring too.


Any chance you have a scan of those pages? I am not familiar with the manual
Cheers
Ian

Tour Director Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 7 August 2018 7:03:23 PM(UTC)
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Rare Spares has the HK Supplementary manual for Monaro, maybe there is something in that.
HT80737 Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:07:19 PM(UTC)
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https://www.ebay.com.au/...c91b4:g:DJgAAOSw241Yfubk


eBay item number:
172818731444

Shows a HK Brougham 6 inch 735-14 setup
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Ausjacko on 7/08/2018(UTC)
HT80737 Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:14:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HT80737 Go to Quoted Post

https://www.ebay.com.au/...c91b4:g:DJgAAOSw241Yfubk


eBay item number:
172818731444

Shows a HK Brougham 6 inch 735-14 setup


Also
https://www.ebay.com.au/...f3916:g:8K8AAOSw4aZbC7qc



eBay item number:
163170957590
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Ausjacko on 7/08/2018(UTC)
Ausjacko Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 7 August 2018 9:58:43 PM(UTC)
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Hi HT80737

Way for the HTers to stick together, thanks. Never thought of accessing the manuals that way. But...

The HK Brougham manual shows the spare mounted with the face of the rim into the boot, being held in place at an angle against the support bracket (on the chassis rails closest to the rear seat) and secured with a locating rod through the rim and secured to the other bracket on the chassis rail closest to the rear bumper.

The HG manual shows the coupe and sedan as the same. The rim faces into the boot and is secured with a clamp bolted into a captive nut above the inner lip of the rear drivers side of the boot. The jack is locked in place between the rear of the drivers side wheel well bracket and the tyre.

The HG manual shows the Brougham using the same set-up described above for the HK.

My HT has both brackets along the chassis rail, suggesting they were used. Or am I completely mixed-up. I know I am confused...
Cheers
Jacko
Ausjacko Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, 7 August 2018 10:11:41 PM(UTC)
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Right, should have checked my books first I guess.

The HT Shop Manual Supplement confirms what I wrote above mostly (here we go I hear you say).

Page 10-2 depicts the Brougham with rim facing to the guard and a jack pushing out from the chassis rail against a rod hooked through the rear most bracket on the chassis rail through the rim and secured with a wing nut on the guard side.

10-3 shows the sedan and coupe EXCEPT when fitted with 185-14, 7.35-14 or D70-14 tyres, using the clamp and jack against the wheel well bracket.

AND page 10-4 Sedan or coupe when fitted with 185-14, 7.35-14 or D70-14 tyres with the rim facing toward the guard, the rod and wing nut with the jack pushing out on the rim from the chassis rail.
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 8 August 2018 7:06:12 AM(UTC)
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Don't forget you have many factors working here that no doubt dictate the differences:

D70x14 tyres also means 6" rim in all HK. Same but not mentioned, ER70H14 tyres (Aquajets). I think you could get D70 tyres with 5" rims in HT-HG but same problem as Brougham I think (see below).
AFAIK 185x14 (eg Michelin XAS) also come with 6" rims in HK at least.
All Brougham are 5" rims and most (if not all) are 7.35x14 tyres which are too big for the traditional spare attaching method (captive not up high with clamp).
HK rims have 4.69" backspace, 5" is 1.69" offset, 6" is 1.19" offset.
HT 5" rims are 1.19" offset and 6" rims are 1.06" offset. The backspaces are 4.19" for 5" and 4.56" for 6".

All of these factors are what will dictate how the wheel is oriented and how it is attached to the car.

Edited by user Wednesday, 8 August 2018 7:10:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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gm5735 Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, 8 August 2018 2:53:37 PM(UTC)
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That's a bigger subject than you know Ian!
No photos I'm afraid. Its just too hard on this forum now.

For HK it seems the wheel nut face points to the inside for all tyres, with the jack wedged up high to the front for 6" tyres and a threaded "J" bolt in one of the wheel nut holes to the centre wheel bracket on the inner rail. Smaller tyes use a clamp and bolt on the periphery of the wheel and tyre assembly, to the rear of the boot threaded into a weld nut.

With this arrangement 6" wheels and D70 tyres the wheel/tyre barely fits into the spare wheel recess, and even then often does not drop to the bottom of the wheel well. With reproduction D70, and with 205/70 tyres it will not fit without large amounts of deflation and persuasion. The wheel is canted into the boot at an extreme angle to allow the boot to close.

For HT the fit situation is the same, but that the 6" wheels now have the wheel nut face facing the outside of the car and the jack is wedged between the centre wheel bracket and the centre of the wheel, living inside the recess in the wheel centre. A longer "J" bolt (longer than HK, that is) clamps it in the same way as HK. The comments regarding wheel fit in the wheel well equally apply.

About mid HT the design of the inner RH quarter panel gusset changed with the bottom 6" bent towards the outside of the car about 10 degrees. This opens up the wheel well and allows the wheel to drop to the bottom of the well. This change happened in both sedan and coupe body styles. I'm not sure about Brougham.

After that change the wheel/tyre fits more easily, although the orientation is unchanged.

This problem started appearing for me in the early 1980s when we started using 205/70-14 tyres in place of D70-14. They are not exactly the same, although are often claimed to be. The nominal sectional width (maximum inflated width) of the tyre for a D70-14 is, depending on who you believe, a little under 200mm. The reproduction D70s around now are a little over 200mm. A 205/70 is 205mm. The design of the early wheel wells is such that later tyres are a struggle to fit, but the situation is a little bit better with the wheel nut face facing the inside of the boot.




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Ausjacko on 9/08/2018(UTC)
morsesworld Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, 8 August 2018 5:03:55 PM(UTC)
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Hi Guys,
What gm5735 says concurs with my HG Glove Box manual, P.52.
Sorry I don't know how to upload this Photo to the Forum.
Gerard Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 8 August 2018 11:25:21 PM(UTC)
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Here are a few images of the mounting brackets on my car with one of the original six inch rims. I put a 205 ?? tyre on this rim but it wouldn't fit so now have a 185 on it. There was no j bolt? type of fastener with the car when I got it in 1975, but hope to locate one in the future
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Ausjacko on 9/08/2018(UTC)
Ausjacko Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, 9 August 2018 9:36:34 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Geoff and Gerard
And he was me thinking I am completely loosing my mind with how the thing fits.
Geoff, this all started as the tyre I had (D70/14) was, as you describe, in such a dumb angle that I thought it could not possibly be correct. I think the boot even has a curved bit in the frame to accommodate this arrangement.

Gerard
Those pics are exactly what I have, clamp and all. Thanks. I have changed to a 185 and the fit is much better as you say. I am going to use the jack in the centre to sandwhich the rim in place.

Tasmania will be interesting to see how others have done this and to hear how everyone else , if different, has it wrong...

Cheers
Jacko
supercoach24 Offline
#14 Posted : Thursday, 9 August 2018 5:18:37 PM(UTC)
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I am also trying to get my new spare wheel to fit the well, was thinking of taking out the small rectangle piece of metal at the bottom of the well to amke new tyres fit better. I am tracking down a long j bolt as i only have my original wingnut.I will try and fit my tyre with the front of the tyre facing towards the panel and see how I go with the jack and all
Ausjacko Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, 9 August 2018 9:27:35 PM(UTC)
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I installed mine today but without the clamp. The thing just does not fit well and with the jack pushing against the tyre there is no need for it. Dare I ask where the wheel nut wrench thing goes? I see it is supposed to sit under the boot mat toward the bumper end of the bot but is there a 'spot'/recess or something?

Strikes me that by the time they got to thinking about the boot, the designers' minds had moved to the HQ
Cheers
Ian
Gerard Offline
#16 Posted : Friday, 10 August 2018 8:55:42 PM(UTC)
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Not directly related to this topic I have added these photos of one of the original rims and one of the michelin tyres that were on the car when I bought it in 1975. This is the only remaining tire as the rest were removed to save space for transport.
HK1837 Offline
#17 Posted : Friday, 10 August 2018 9:15:12 PM(UTC)
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Very expensive tyre option in the day. Dominated Bathurst in 1968 and 1969 before cars started using racing rubber rather than optional tyres.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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