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I pulled the springs out of the HT today, 3 leaves. I looked at the HK and it has 5 leaf springs. The 3 leaf in the HT has what look like after market overide/helper springs . Does anyone know what's right and wrong?
Cheers
Pete
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OK cancel that.
Got home and did some trolling on the net and found the differences. All steam ahead again.
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all HT & HG sedans had 3 thicker leafs (V8 had 4. except for broughams) always seem to sag except for '71 models as they set them stiffer HK leafs are thinner (hence why theres more) but never break main leafs as is common wit HGs wagons had extra leaf then ute & vans had more again there are 2 types of over rider springs (full length & half ones)& are an optional extra for towing all hk springs have small eye each and & HT HGs have bigger eye at front www.bellarineclassicautos.com.au
sedan had quote:
Originally posted by CrustyHK
I pulled the springs out of the HT today, 3 leaves. I looked at the HK and it has 5 leaf springs. The 3 leaf in the HT has what look like after market overide/helper springs . Does anyone know what's right and wrong?
Cheers
Pete
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The 3 leaf from the HT brougham look well and truly flogged Dave. How do you think I'd go using a HT 5 leaf set? I haven't trid to put them in but lining them up against each other the 5 leaf look like they will sit fairly high in the car.
Pete
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[quote] Originally posted by dirty davo
all HT & HG sedans had 3 thicker leafs (V8 had 4. except for broughams) always seem to sag except for '71 models as they set them stiffer HK leafs are thinner (hence why theres more) but never break main leafs as is common wit HGs wagons had extra leaf then ute & vans had more again there are 2 types of over rider springs (full length & half ones)& are an optional extra for towing all hk springs have small eye each and & HT HGs have bigger eye at front [quote] FYI All HK have the small eye in the front of the springs, as do ALL HT HG VANS, UTES AND MANUAL V8 GTS COUPES (Part No.: 7409204). The rest of the HT HG range had the bigger front bush (Part No.: 2807572). I HOPE THIS CLEARS UP ANY WRONG INFO THATS BEEN LISTED Regards Simon. www.monarorestorationparts.com.auEdited by user Saturday, April 9, 2011 9:56:53 AM(UTC)
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Simon,
Was that just a matter of tooling/fabrication for the model, or a place of maufacture thing, or is there a reason for the smaller eye?
Brian |
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The idea of the larger diameter front bush on some HT/HG models was to improve noise isolation & improve the ride quality, much like the intro of the neoprene bushes in the front suspension.
Dr Terry |
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quote:
Originally posted by Bruvpig
Simon,
Was that just a matter of tooling/fabrication for the model, or a place of maufacture thing, or is there a reason for the smaller eye?
Brian
Brian, definitely not a place of manufacture thing. Its how they are listed in the parts catalogues. I believe in my opinion that it would be something to do with the fact that the commercials were expected to be used under heavy load as with the V8 manual cars also from the horsepower. Maybe Holden thought the smaller steel bush was stronger for these purposes than the new larger rubber bush and continued to use them in HT HG |
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Thanks gents,
last two posts make a lot of sense, very helpful.
Its amazing just how many small things change in a model just to throw out everything you thought you knew about them.
Must make concourse building & judging a nightmare. |
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This brings up another small point. The spring/diff mounting rubbers are different by the looks of things due to the different springs. It looks like all the diff brackets and shock brackets are identical but due to the variety of springs the bushes may be different.
After looking at a repair manual it looks like there's plenty of variations. Different bushes for different models and spacers between the plates for different springs (utes, vans etc)
I don;t know what I'm doing wrong with mine though. I've replaced the 3 leaf set with another 3 leaf set, replaced the rubbers with what I'm told are the right rubbers (HT Sedan) and there's no way they will clamp up between the plates.
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Trivia:
Brian I was speaking with an old guy the other day re the springs who mentioned there were many complaints when the HT came out about it being less direct and responsive through the steering and suspension compared with the HK. The HK had/has less flex in its bushes and was supposedly tighter on the road. Apparently the complaints only came from the drivers and the passenger were happy with the quieter and smoother ride.
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I know what he means... I prefer the hk front end for exactly that reason.
If the passenger doesn't like the ride, they can always walk of course
He He |
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quote:
Originally posted by dirty davo
all HT & HG sedans had 3 thicker leafs (V8 had 4. except for broughams)
always seem to sag except for '71 models as they set them stiffer
HK leafs are thinner (hence why theres more) but never break main leafs as is common wit HGs
wagons had extra leaf then ute & vans had more again
there are 2 types of over rider springs (full length & half ones)& are an optional extra for towing
all hk springs have small eye each and & HT HGs have bigger eye at front
www.bellarineclassicautos.com.au
FYI. All 6 cylinder & V8 HT sedans (Belmont, Kingswood, Premier, Brougham), Monaro coupe, V8 GTS Auto and GTS 350 Auto had 3 leaf springs (1.083 thickness). However, the optional G50 4 leaf (1.138 thickness) heavy duty rear springs were available on all the above excluding the two GTS models I have listed. All Wagons (6 & V8) had 6 leafs (1.472 thickness), different to the 6 & V8 Belmont utes and vans (1.688 thickness). Kingswood (6 & V8) utes had 6 leafs with a 1.743 thickness. 6 cylinder Auto, 6 cylinder & V8 manual GTS and manual 350 shared the same 4 leaf spring. (1.288 thickness). I HOPE THIS CLEARS UP ANY WRONG INFO THATS BEEN LISTED |
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quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
quote:
Originally posted by dirty davo
all HT & HG sedans had 3 thicker leafs (V8 had 4. except for broughams)
always seem to sag except for '71 models as they set them stiffer
HK leafs are thinner (hence why theres more) but never break main leafs as is common wit HGs
wagons had extra leaf then ute & vans had more again
there are 2 types of over rider springs (full length & half ones)& are an optional extra for towing
all hk springs have small eye each and & HT HGs have bigger eye at front
www.bellarineclassicautos.com.au
FYI. All 6 cylinder & V8 HT sedans (Belmont, Kingswood, Premier, Brougham), Monaro coupe, V8 GTS Auto and GTS 350 Auto had 3 leaf springs (1.083 thickness). However, the optional G50 4 leaf (1.138 thickness) heavy duty rear springs were available on all the above excluding the two GTS models I have listed.
All Wagons (6 & V8) had 6 leafs (1.472 thickness), different to the 6 & V8 Belmont utes and vans (1.688 thickness). Kingswood (6 & V8) utes had 6 leafs with a 1.743 thickness.
6 cylinder Auto, 6 cylinder & V8 manual GTS and manual 350 shared the same 4 leaf spring. (1.288 thickness).
I HOPE THIS CLEARS UP ANY WRONG INFO THATS BEEN LISTED
yea yea, im no parts book nerd, as i only have reference to what ive dismantled over last 20yrs or so. every HT & HG V8 i ever pulled apart (ie white hot specials an all factory V8 models)) has had 4 leafs as standard (with big front eye) (except brougham which were all 3 leaf for smooooothr ride)((as did all 6cyl versions [3 leaf]) cmon people, give me your feedback here?? SSS has his views an i have mine so who really cares what parts book printed in their day. i know what ive physically seen, not just whats printed in a book!!! possibly 253 autos only had 3 leaf as they wernt a power house!!!! obviously commercials & monaros (especially 818s were mostly small eye fronts for more ridged ride who realy knows?? f#*k knows!! he does.. An if i talk to him in near future i'll ask him, coz f#*k knows all !! he does hehe regards daveclassicauto.com.au www.bellarineclassicautos.com.au
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[quote] Originally posted by CrustyHK
The 3 leaf from the HT brougham look well and truly flogged Dave. How do you think I'd go using a HT 5 leaf set? I haven't trid to put them in but lining them up against each other the 5 leaf look like they will sit fairly high in the car. Pete [/quote correct there pete. id go the HT 5 leaf (which woulda bin wagon 6cyl ones ((or 6 leaf wlda bin V8 ) they will sit slightly higher obviously, therefore because they are also 40+yr old sagged springs, im sure they will be sagged a tad, an should suit your application as is!! otherwise remove th 2nd bottom one for th ride height you prob desire, or juss put 1" or 1 1/2 " blocks to compensate ive bin playn wit these for 20yrs now, an do this work every week to suit owners satisfaction!! physical labour rules!! books are for ppl who dont know any better! all comes down to trial n error which ive experienced several times over. regards davo www.bellarineclassicautos.com.au
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As far as I understand, HT V8 manual GTS and HG GTS350 manual have the HK GTS rear springs with 4 leafs and small front eye. Not sure about commercials. |
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