This is probably one for Byron, but all are welcome to chime in.

The M22 Saginaw box was essentially the 4-sp gearbox optional for 6-cyl HK/HT/HG utes & vans, right ?

I do understand that it was also optional for some other models in those series.

My question is, precisely what other HK/HT/HG models had the M22 as an available option ?

Also was it ever officially available behind any HK/HT/HG V8 ?

Dr Terry

The way I understand it:

M21 - HK-HG V8 both passenger and commercial. HK passenger 6cyl except 161.
M22 - HK-HT 6cyl commercial and HT 186S.

The only thing that I can't find definitive info on is whether the availability of the M22 in HT passenger was behind all 186S or just on GTS.

Of course there will always be the odd special order that bucks the system, some dealers were good at bypassing the local zone office and getting what they wanted.

Saginaw transmissions started getting very rare in HG. It was no longer an available regular option for 6cyl commercials (wasn't even on the order form) and very limited on anything other than V8 GTS by early 1971. Even M20 was very limited at that stage outside of GTS. As HG was ending I guess GMH only had a certain volume of M21 and M20 allocated to predicted GTS production and didn't want anything left at the end. To date I don't think too many if any AHG commercials have even turned up with a 4spd.

M21 was the standard 4spd for V8 HG Rob, I wrecked a HG 253 M21 Kingswood sedan less than 10 years ago (rescued from a demolition derby fate). It was the M22 for 6cyl commercials and passenger vehicles that was not a regular option in HG. It was only at the end of HG that M21 became very limited outside GTS.

It'd be a good one to check out, but I didn't say HG van. I said AHG commercials, which is those commercial built past HQ release and up to late 1971. AHG is the chassis number prefix on these.

Just wanted to post a thank you to HK1837 for answering a few questions on our new car. Really appreciated. Cheers

Good stuff Byron.
I'm just a little confused by this statement:

"So it appears that for initial HT GTS (and possibly HT Monaro) production you could get an M21 box. But after the end of 6/69 you couldn't. This is actually another rare error in Ben and Warren's Monaro book, it says M22 optional for HT GTS but the pricing info clearly states M21 and it was only for a very short time"

Maybe M21 or M22 wasn't a possibility on 307 (surely not an Opel, so does that mean auto only?), and we know the HT81837 had an M21 but what of 253 and 308 manual cars (also, surely not Opels). Are you saying they didn't exist?

Yes, I thought it might be that, but wasn't sure. So always available on HT80837 (except 307) and only for a short spurt on HT80737

Opel behind a V8? Not for long. Hard enough to keep them alive on a 186S.

It might be the whole M20/M21/M22 confusion that causes the faulty memories. I've known several otherwise normal people who swear they had factory Muncies, and Aussies on HKTGs.

What you say is correct Byron. However, in isolation if someone says "HT GTS", to me this could be either an 80737 or an 80837.

The word Monaro is another one. If I am referring to a 80337/80437 I will say 'base' Monaro, because many could wrongly assume that I also meant GTS.

A lot of posters on this forum do the same thing. Look how many guys, talk about a Monaro dash or a Monaro hubcap, when they actually mean a GTS instrument cluster or a GTS wheel cover.

Dr Terry

We are agreeing to agree on this.

I could see what you meant, but it is easy for others to misconstrue what we were discussing.

Dr Terry

Geoff, HK is different to HT-HQ.

8 just means GMH.

For HK 01 is Belmont, 03 Kingswood, 05 Premier and 07 is GTS. These would have all been locked in back earlier in 1967. By the time Brougham (and later GTS327) was allocated a model code HT coding was locked in so V8 models were given a separate code which was an even number. By that time also most HQ's were locked in and the next available V8 code was 14 as 11 and 12 were used for Premier and LS (in HQ) (I can't recall what happened to 09 and 10, maybe used for an export or defunct car?). GMH used 15 for HQ 6cyl Statesman, and 16 for HQ caprice (export and consulate model in the HQ range). So by GTS327 the next code available was 18 hence 1837.

For HK it is exactly how you describe it. However HT-HQ 6cyl and V8 versions of the same luxury level and body style are actually separate models and in much GMH literature this is how they are treated if you sit down and absorb how they structure documents. For example in options pricing lists for HT the only optional engines listed (going from memory) are 161L, 186, 186L, 186S, 253L and 307 - no mention of 161H or 253H or 308 or 350 as these were standard engines in their respective models (161H being the standard 6cyl engine in all 6cyl models except GTS, 253H being the standard engine in all V8 models except Brougham and GTS350, 308 being the standard engine in Brougham and 350 the standard engine in GTS350). This is just an example, it is the same for different gearbox options. For vehicle pricing they also list HT GTS and HT GTS V8 as separate models, and they actually call Monaros respectively: Monaro 2 door, Monaro 253 V8, Monaro G.T.S. 2 door sedan and Monaro G.T.S. 253 V8. I'm not saying that this all makes it fact, just how it all fits and works in internal documents - so it is how I interpret it and work it in my head. Plus it is how it appears in actuality on the ID plates where the model codes are actually different for 6cyl and V8 models. Whilst it is fine in general terms or general conversation to call all HT Monaro GTS's "Monaro GTS", 3 x models (4 really if you view the GTS350 auto as a separate car which in reality it almost is) can't logically be called the same thing if you are being specific or technical in an answer (or in internal documents like GMH did). So you have to use GTS, GTS V8 and GTS350 (often GTS350M and GTS350A) to nominate exactly what you are referring to.

Terry, there is another trivia question for your trivia nights: What engines were optional in the RHD Australian delivered HT series?