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DW Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 1 November 2018 2:38:47 PM(UTC)
DW

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G day all.

This is my first post and I apologise for straight away coming online with a question and please excuse my lack of knowledge but im running at a loss with indentifying my chevy block that I was given many years ago. I would like to put it in a 72 HQ wellbody that I have but would like to try and ID it first. Have also put up photos of the ute I would like to put the chev in and the present VJ prefix 304 that I would like some clarity on as the VJ prefix seems to be a bit of a grey area?.

I have been told that the knowledge base here is very vast and accurate and If someone is able to assist me in any way I would much appreciate it.

I have tried to ID the block and have spent way too many hours on the interweb and still can't narrow it down due to the huge and very ambiguous info surrounding the 3970010 blocks.

Im guessing that its been decked at some stage making the stamped numbers on the front right pad very difficult to make out as there appear to be two lots with the bottom ID stamps still just partially visible.

Was this block originally out of a Holden?

I haven't been able to remove the pan as yet but will down the track.

I think its been stroked to 383? from originally a 350??

2 Bolt main? going on the size of the plugs near the oil Filter

What Year is the engine? I think maybe a 69? or 68?

What does the S Cast letter indicate? Im guessing short

Casting number 2 near main block casting number?

Why are the 010 numbers on both sides of the block?

The letters I can make out on the right front pad are Possibly U I T T (T on top and bottom lines) K L?. Numbers - 509861 with a 1 also on the top line?

2 Timing chains?

Was the harmonic balancer specific to an engine size?

Ha anyone seen the Block casting number facing the GM cast letters?

I have attached a photo with the VERY ROUGH measurement using a plastic set of verniers indicating the stroke?. Im guessing its a 350 stroked to 383?

There are two different number Pistons? They are dome top forged pistons?

The appears to be a D stamped near the Oil filter?

I look forward to your reply as Ive never had to try an ID such a mess before and Its left me scratching my head.

Cheers
Daniel
Dr Terry Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 1 November 2018 2:54:56 PM(UTC)
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From memory a VJ prefixed 304 is the stock VL carby Black motor.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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DW on 1/11/2018(UTC)
DW Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 1 November 2018 3:30:19 PM(UTC)
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G Day DR Terry.

Thank you for your reply and Info, Much appreciated.

Cheers
DW

HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 1 November 2018 4:40:31 PM(UTC)
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As Dr Terry says the VJ bit is easy. Will be a rope seal manual pattern block with 308 on both sides.

As for the SBC, it is a 350. Those pistons are Speed Pro forged dome top for 5.7" rods and 3.48" stroke.

There is nothing mysterious about 3970010 blocks. They are just the standard 4" bore SBC casting used from near to the end of 1969 model year for both 2 and 4 bolt applications. For 1968 and the start of 1969 model year the casting plants used their own casting numbers, Tonawanda used 3932388, Flint (cast in Saginaw foundry) used 3932386 and 3956618. McKinnon started to use the 386 casting late in 1968 (halfway through 1969 model year) and Tonawanda even machined Saginaw blocks at some stage. Furthermore in 1969 GM rationalised their business and moved all engine plants into the new department, and then they all started to use the same casting number 3970010. Call it something like the start of GM Powertrain, just 20 years earlier than the official change.

Yours is a Saginaw cast, so is not from a HQ. It looks to be maybe 1973 era, could be 2 or 4 bolt. The oil gallery plug at the front confirms Flint assembly too.

The first line of numbers on the engine pad are the engine assembly plant code. The V at the start tells you it was assembled at the Flint V8 plant on Van Slyk Road. The suffix looks to be CKL which would be a 1973 L65 which was a 2 barrel 350 from a Californian F, A or B body with TH auto transmission, same basic engine we got here in HQ except we got the 4 barrel version (L48). This will mean a 2 bolt block too. The second line of numbers are the partial VIN from the car it came from. If you can clean it up it will nail the car it came from, in terms of where it was assembled and the PSN of the car.

Edited by user Thursday, 1 November 2018 4:44:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 3/11/2018(UTC)
commodorenut Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 1 November 2018 8:02:24 PM(UTC)
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If it still has the original heads with it, VJ prefix VL 304s got the big valves from the factory, and induction hardened seats.
Even though it has been decked & re-stamped, the number sequence is correct for a later VL (late '87 or '88).
Cheers,

Mick
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DW on 3/11/2018(UTC)
DW Offline
#6 Posted : Saturday, 3 November 2018 3:42:07 AM(UTC)
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Apologies for the late reply and Many thanks for giving me some time and getting back to me with some answers for my questions as its helped me out heaps.

When I eventually get some time to get into the ute I was wondering what drive train you would recommend to bolt onto the back of that chev block with a manual gearbox in mind?. I read somewhere that VT Disc brakes bolt straight onto the HQ and Im guessing they would be sufficient for the job?

From the plates on the car I have gathered that its a 72, Built in Melb, V8 was fitted, Kingswood and not a Belmont?, Black Trim fitted.

I think its been fitted with a Monroe dash at some stage and does the fact that it states 2 seats indicate that it was fitted with bucket seats or they were all fitted with a bench and still just got the 2 seat capacity rating? It currently has I think VL seats in it which would make sense as they would have been installed at the same time as the engine was dropped in.

Is there any indication off the plates as to what engine was fitted originally? or because its just a ute would state only V8 regardless of what Size Cci was installed?.

Was the option available to place a 350 in a ute at the time or was the 308 the end of the line for power?

I can't find any info on the plates regarding the original Gear box? currently has a 4speed

IM pretty sure the colour code is Chateau Mauve? Anyone thats seen the original colour don't seem to be a fan but thats her colour and I look forward to seeing it painted Chateau Mauve again, F#@K em

HK1837, will have a proper go at getting that ID pad sorted on the chevy and will reach out again for some assistance to pin the original vehicle

Thx again and cheers
DW
.
















justgm Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, 3 November 2018 5:56:19 AM(UTC)
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Hi DW , I can point out a few things , but more will come from the experts . Yes 80480 is Kingswood V8 ute , no you cannot tell from these early plates what V8 that was. 567-13884 is Chateau Mauve , which according to an August 1972 GMH colour chart was not available on Kingswood . Metallic paint was not normally available on commercial Holden's. Melb built 3 HQ Premier wagons with 350 up to 15/06/72 , so anything is possible . Thanks Mark.
life is good in "Wine & Holden Marlborough "
HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Saturday, 3 November 2018 8:06:18 AM(UTC)
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Yes, it is a HQ V8 Kingswood utility. Colour was Chateau Mauve, and it is a special order colour too as it was only available on Premier or Monaro LS by colour chart A618. It has done well to even be in that colour as A618 was released 2/72 and your ute was completed on 7th March. It was a bucket seat car originally, so will be one of those odd arrangements with floor shift and nothing between the seats, just a bit of rubber floor mat.

It was originally a 308 manual, so optioned as L31 with standard M21 and 3.36 rear axle that came with that combination on a HQ utility. Nice ute to have, nice colour/trim. 308 manual was the second to top driveline available in a HQ Kingswood ute, only 308 auto was more expensive but until Sandman arrived in 1974 was also probably more common. I wouldn't be surprised if it was also optioned with U21 sports instruments given someone has spent the money on the 308 and bucket seats.

If you want to make it closer to correct you are looking for an engine with a number like QT1174xx.

Edited by user Saturday, 3 November 2018 8:08:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
DW Offline
#9 Posted : Saturday, 3 November 2018 2:43:22 PM(UTC)
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Many thanks again HK1837 and also thank you justgm for your info.

The ute when I acquired it had a GTS wheel with a plain rubber centre cap minus the GTS badge and after looking up the U21 Instruments on Majestic vanners confirmed that is the GTS dash in the photo. would have the wheel been an option or due to being fitted with the U21 cluster have part of the deal?

The dash has a split in the plastic down near the adjusters on the right which I will be looking to get repaired or if easier just replace.

What badge would have the ute initially had on the tailgate? The V8 badge? someone has put the earlier badge on the tailgate with the 253 logo on it as there are two old holes just behind it.

The front end has the premier lights and was that an option to be fitted from the factory? I dont have the ute with me now as I would check to see it the CM colour was present under the overspray presently in place. What grill would have been in place initially for the period and options available.

It initially had the Hotwire rims on it which im certain wouldn't have been available from the factory and was wondering which rims would have been optioned with the ute at the time?

Attached is a photo of the diff currently in place.

Are the rubber mats available presently that would suit the model Requirements?

Would have the bucket seats been the normal black leather buckets found in the Kingswood?

What shroud would have been around the bottom of the Gear stick?

It initially had one steel GTS badge on the drivers side above the flutes which been press fitted and not bolted on? not sure if that has any relevance at all but it was there.

Thanks again


HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, 3 November 2018 3:25:19 PM(UTC)
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Sports wheel was only available on GTS, SS and Sandman. If yours is blank it'll be from a HJ or LX or something like that. You couldn't option it anywhere outside SS, GTS or Sandman. Nose will be a standard Kingswood with Kingswood grille and Kingswood badges on the guards. Guards were the same as steering wheel, this car would have standard guards. Just a V8 badge on the tailgate, on the LH side from memory and a Kingswood badge (same as the guards) on the RH side. Will also have had a stainless moulding on the sill and some around the door (above and behind) and one across the door. It will look almost the same as a Kingswood sedan outside. Buckets are same as Kinsgwood sedan and wagon as are door trims. Should have bright tail-light surrounds too. Gearstick boot is the same as any other floor shift HQ-WB, just a ribbed rubber boot held down by a black metal plate with another rubber seal under the shifter. Basically this:
https://www.ebay.com.au/...AAOSwlE5bQwai:rk:10:pf:0

Find yourself a HQ parts catalogue, it shows drawings of what and where most stuff went. Here is one that no-one bid on:

https://www.ebay.com.au/...p;_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Here is a sold one:
https://www.ebay.com.au/...p;_trksid=p2047675.l2557

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 3/11/2018(UTC)
DW Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, 3 November 2018 4:28:09 PM(UTC)
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Cheers HK1837

Will bet onto the catalog ect and much appreciated for your time and knowledge.

All the best
DW
detective Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, 4 November 2018 10:53:03 AM(UTC)
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Might've this car been one of the Design Studio models in preparation for the release of the Sandman range ? .. It seems to have all the hallmarks of an upmarket model, with the colour palette and graphics possibly still to be decided....?
HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Sunday, 4 November 2018 12:12:33 PM(UTC)
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I doubt it. I have both Sandman prototypes recorded, both December 1972 cars, both 000M dealer codes. The ute is a Kingswood in Salamanca Red, the van a Belmont but specced up to Kingswood level (like a HX Sandman) in March 17th. I have seen the van in the flesh and the ute appears on GMH sales tender documents.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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detective on 4/11/2018(UTC)
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