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HK1837 Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, 13 July 2018 7:12:30 AM(UTC)
HK1837

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Just organising to get one of these rebuilt so just checking to see if there are any particular pros and cons with the different types of these? Particularly with fitment and clearances in the engine bay and on the firewall?

The V8 GTS originally had the lever type mech and VH300 booster which I have here. I also have a fair few different ones here, I think the types are VH311, VH312 and VH320 for other HT-HG types (VH312 and VH320 are longer pushrod), plus VH316 for HQ (4 wheel drum) and VH317, VH327 (both XU1) and VH329, VH330 for V8 LH-LX.

As I'm getting one rebuilt I can use bits and pieces off some on others.

Any particular one better or worse than others fitment wise?

I did notice in the books I have that the original VH300 has a longer rod than the other shorter pushrod types, but nowhere near as long as the HT-HG (VH312/VH320). VH300 is 3.86". VH311, VH316, VH317, VH324 are all either 3.61" (VH311) or 3.65" (rest). I imagine this is just to do with attaching directly to the pedal rather than the lever arrangement, so I guess that means that if I use the VH300 and direct mount it I need a pushrod from a VH311?

The only other differences I can see appear to be the check valve and the valve body, they seem to mix and match these. The one that would probably be a direct bolt on is the later HK and earlier HT type, VH311. Everything is the same parts wise as the HK lever type VH300 except the pushrod is 3.61" rather than 3.86". The HQ 4 wheel drum VH316 looks identical to VH311 except the pushrod is 3.65" long.

Edited by user Friday, 13 July 2018 9:32:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Dr Terry Offline
#2 Posted : Friday, 13 July 2018 9:19:10 AM(UTC)
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I've always found that the later direct (non-lever) type booster gives a better pedal feel.

Also, the main reason that GM-H went from the lever type to the direct pushrod, was to better position the whole booster/m-cyl assembly away from the engine to allow clearance for the factory air cond compressor, when fitted to a V8 model. A bonus is that it gives better access for general servicing etc.

The multitude of part numbers was due to PBR constantly improving & updating its design. For example, the later (smaller) plastic vacuum check has proven over time to be more reliable.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Friday, 13 July 2018 9:51:06 AM(UTC)
HK1837

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Terry I think you have confirmed what I suspected, that the later direct acting type is the go. I don't think I actually have a later HK or early HT VH311 with the 3.61" pushrod, pretty sure I only have VH300 and the later HT-HG VH312 and VH320 with the long pushrod. Would using a HQ drum brake VH316 or XU1 VH317/327 3.65" rod be an issue? The difference is only 0.04" (1.01mm), I'm pretty sure that there would be that much slack in the whole system anyway. I think I have one of those XU1 boosters laying around somewhere.

Note this is only to sort out the back part of the booster and the pushrod so I can get started on it. The front bit will depend on what master cylinder I'm told to use by the Engineer. If I have to use a later Ford master i'll use the nose off a Commodore or later UC booster. The car is getting AUII-BA rotors and calipers with HQ rear drums, so not sure what he is going to want or what will work best. The twin 42mm pistons on the BA calipers work out to be the equivalent of a single 60mm piston which is what an earlier Ford (eg XF) had hence the though that a Ford master might work better, and would also allow me to use bigger rear wheel cylinders (ie Ford piston size). This way I end up with a car that weighs pretty much the same as an XF, has front piston x-sectional area the same as an XF, XF master cylinder and XF size rear wheel cylinders with the same diameter and width shoes as an XF. Or conversely the HQ-WB front piston size of 63mm might be close enough to the 60mm equivalent of the AUII-BA, so I can just run a HQ master cylinder with HQ rear cylinders. Thus I can use the whole HK booster.

The car has the mid 1968 front sub-frame on it, with the smooth RH inner guard but with the indent for the direct acting booster.

As i'm making up most all new brake lines, is it worth also using a HQ-HJ type distribution block for the brakes if using a HQ cylinder, and thus eliminating the HK setup? Although more work with the booster with the staggered type master cylinder like an XF or Commodore etc, I guess when it comes to brake lines it is easier as there is no need to worry about distribution as it is done for me at the master cylinder.
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Dr Terry Offline
#4 Posted: : Friday, 13 July 2018 10:09:56 AM(UTC)
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Have you considered using the VS & later type booster/master set-up. These 'quick-fill' master cylinders give a much better pedal feel than plain old 1-inch bore style units.

The BA Ford also uses this design. Using later twin-piston callipers with old fashioned m/cyl doesn't give good results.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, 13 July 2018 11:25:43 AM(UTC)
HK1837

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The VS cylinder fits on a UC/WB/VB booster doesn’t it? If it does then I just have to use the nose off a UC/VB type booster on the HK rear half with the right front rod. I’d have to use the Ford cylinder I think as it is designed for the bigger pistons? The problem is i’m running rear drums and all VS and BA are rear disc?

I also assume these later cylinders are the ones with the stepped piston? So bigger front piston and smaller rear? It looks like you can get spacers too so you can fit a VT cylinder on a VS booster, and the BA cylinder looks to be the same/similar as a VT at the back. So I could use a BA cylinder if need be. Just have to figure out the rear drum check valve, could probably pull this out of a WB commercial master cylinder and fit it to a BA cylinder?

This looks easier:

http://www.caenterprises...ges/catelogue/MCA001.jpg

Edited by user Friday, 13 July 2018 11:48:37 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, 13 July 2018 5:47:35 PM(UTC)
HK1837

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Just figured out I'm looking for a VH312, and I found one in the shed. Has a 8.6" rod with a nut on the end and an attachment bracket to fix it to the pedal. I have another one that looks similar but the rod is longer by about 1/2" and the check valve hole is smaller. I think this one is late HT and HG, VH320.

In the HK parts catalogue it lists both lever and direct acting boosters, but only the one pedal so I assume VH312 will just hook up to the HK brake pedal? HG and late HT must have a hole in a different spot on the pedal?

Talked to a brake shop guru this afternoon. With the CAE adapter and VT cylinder it will all work fine, doesn't need any prop valve and the cylinder will operate drums fine. I just need the reservoir off whichever Commodore uses the same stepped piston but has a flat lid on it.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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