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69 rust bucket
Quarter Horse
Australia
153 Posts |
 Posted - 26/04/2012 : 2:07:30 PM
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| i know this has been put through the mincer many times but i just wonder how the new firewalls now available is going to affect this rebirth thing once the firewall has been replaced what then is it a bathurst monaro .many may say if it has no firewall number then it cant be a factory car but i have a kingswood with no firewall number what is that called.food for thought |
why drink & drive when you can drift & slide |
Edited by - 69 rust bucket on 28/04/2012 4:27:00 PM |
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Warren Turnbull
Vintage Veteran
Australia
1769 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 06:36:49 AM
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The firewall number has nothing to do with luxury level, so having no firewall number does not change the car from being what the tags say it is.
The firewall number is the number used by the registration people to confirm identity and ownership. So changing this number will not change what it is but who owns it. That is why it is illegal to change it.
I have not seen these replacement firewalls, but if I was going to fit one, I would be in contact with the authorities BEFORE I removed the old one.
Warren |
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69 rust bucket
Quarter Horse
Australia
153 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 2:45:57 PM
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| i understand what your saying warren but what i'm saying what is stopping anyone putting tags on a blank firewall and making that car what its not |
why drink & drive when you can drift & slide |
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HK1837
Forum Engineer
Australia
8318 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 5:20:57 PM
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I don't get the question? This has always been the case, ie what is stopping someone from getting a HK Belmont/Premier/Kingswood firewall close to the right chassis number and putting it with tags?
I can tell you what will pull you up, The Holden Monaro Register. But if you happended to find a car with a firewall very close to the original not even that would stop you. |
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
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ozchevy
Quarter Horse
486 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 5:41:14 PM
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I have replaced the Firewall in my Camaro, reason been the Left to Right hand drive conversion was done with no skill or precision in mind. I cut out around my old Firewall number and welded the cutout back into the new Firewall. Looking at it from under the hood - nobody would even know any difference.
Original number and matches the car in every way. |
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69 rust bucket
Quarter Horse
Australia
153 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 6:42:02 PM
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| what i'm saying these firewalls should not be available.whack a blank firewall on any monaro a set of 818 tags on it and hey presto a bathurst monaro register or no register thats what i'm saying |
why drink & drive when you can drift & slide |
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HK1837
Forum Engineer
Australia
8318 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 8:25:05 PM
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| My point was you could always do the same thing with another firewall, they are basically the same across all cars. Firewalls are easy to come by, 1837 tags are not! |
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
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dirty davo
Show Stopper
Australia
690 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 8:54:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
My point was you could always do the same thing with another firewall, they are basically the same across all cars. Firewalls are easy to come by, 1837 tags are not!
i have a NOS firewall with no number stamped in it (bought at cessnock swap last year) & its not a chineese repro one |
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dirty davo
Show Stopper
Australia
690 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 9:04:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 69 rust bucket
i know this has been put through the mincer may times but i just wonder how the new firewalls now available is going to affect this rebirth thing once the firewall has been replaced what then is it a bathurst monaro .many may say if it has no firewall number then it cant be a factory car but i have a kingswood with no firewall number what is that called.food for thought
firewalls were obviously available back in th day (no stamping)as a spare part for damaged vehicles.
also all south african monaros (SS chevrolet) had no firewall numbers stamped in em..
tell me this firewall & tags (ebay item #320891732764) isnt gunna rebirth an import to make it leggit? or a stolen car.. |
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dirty davo
Show Stopper
Australia
690 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 9:09:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 69 rust bucket
i know this has been put through the mincer may times but i just wonder how the new firewalls now available is going to affect this rebirth thing once the firewall has been replaced what then is it a bathurst monaro .many may say if it has no firewall number then it cant be a factory car but i have a kingswood with no firewall number what is that called.food for thought
your kingswood would have been a "nasco replacement body shell" from back in th day when the original shell was written off.. |
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HK1837
Forum Engineer
Australia
8318 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 9:17:53 PM
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| Didn't they get chassis numbers Dave? I'm sure all the HT and HG replacement shells I have seen with a PRIME and part number BODY tag have had a chassis number on them. May be a bad memory though! |
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
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Warren Turnbull
Vintage Veteran
Australia
1769 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2012 : 09:07:26 AM
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Yes HG definately have a chassis number in the replacement shell Byron.
Rebirth:
Without a chassis number you will not get it registered, so if you want to use this blank firewall you will need to have it stamped. Legal way would be to have it stamped by the police. Alternatively you could stamp your own number, any number you want or the existing number.
If you re stamp and do not use the right font people will know its a restamp.
Or you could cut the number out of an existing firewall and weld that in.
Now if I do the cut and re weld from another car, which has been happening to HK to HG Holdens for the last 44 years by the rebirthers I do not need a blank firewall. I have seen a number of rebirths over the years, these have been firewall from wreck welded into "stolen" or "written off" car.
To build a fake "bathurst" Monaro is quite easy, without a blank firewall. These cars are just a compelation of Holden parts from the time, they were nothing special when they were built. Remember a 307 4 speed coupe shell is the same replacement part as a GTS 327. All South African cars are the same replacement shell as a GTS 350 manual.
A set of tags does not make an 81837, there are some features you need in the donor shell, like saginaw and salisbury humps.
In conclusion, rebirthing has been around for 44 years on these cars, you do not need a new blank firewall to do it. Infact unless you have a set of firewall stamps that match the originals, then you are better off doing it the way the thieves did in the 70s.
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dirty davo
Show Stopper
Australia
690 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2012 : 10:14:08 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Warren Turnbull
Yes HG definately have a chassis number in the replacement shell Byron.
Rebirth:
Without a chassis number you will not get it registered, so if you want to use this blank firewall you will need to have it stamped. Legal way would be to have it stamped by the police. Alternatively you could stamp your own number, any number you want or the existing number.
If you re stamp and do not use the right font people will know its a restamp.
Or you could cut the number out of an existing firewall and weld that in.
Now if I do the cut and re weld from another car, which has been happening to HK to HG Holdens for the last 44 years by the rebirthers I do not need a blank firewall. I have seen a number of rebirths over the years, these have been firewall from wreck welded into "stolen" or "written off" car.
To build a fake "bathurst" Monaro is quite easy, without a blank firewall. These cars are just a compelation of Holden parts from the time, they were nothing special when they were built. Remember a 307 4 speed coupe shell is the same replacement part as a GTS 327. All South African cars are the same replacement shell as a GTS 350 manual.
A set of tags does not make an 81837, there are some features you need in the donor shell, like saginaw and salisbury humps.
In conclusion, rebirthing has been around for 44 years on these cars, you do not need a new blank firewall to do it. Infact unless you have a set of firewall stamps that match the originals, then you are better off doing it the way the thieves did in the 70s.
[/quote
im not sayin the blank firewall is needed for any rebirth or whateva.
was just pointing out that i have a
NOS one & as a replacement panel they wernt stamped.
as for the repo f/wall thats available? dont understand why they would bother tooling up to make them. out of all th damaged HKTGs ive ever seen, if firewall is damaged its probably not worth fixing |
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edelbrock1
Quarter Horse
352 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2012 : 12:24:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
My point was you could always do the same thing with another firewall, they are basically the same across all cars. Firewalls are easy to come by, 1837 tags are not!
Repro tags are easier to find than a lot of people think. I could get you a set of HK 81837 tags with any combination of numbers before the end of next month.
So it really is buyer beware.
But it really amazes me the amount of people that I get calling me up saying "I have just bought this car, and I need someone to look over it to make sure it is genuine"
Hang on a sec tiger.. you have just spent 50k plus on a old classic car and NOW you want to get it checked out??? littl confusing if you ask me. But the same fella would not buy his missus a 10k VX Commodore without it having a prepurchase inspection done.. Go figure.
Just saying with all the repro s*** out there, Tags, books, firewalls, body pressing panels, it is up to the BUYER to ensure the car is genuine BEFORE they start shelling out their hard earned.
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HK1837
Forum Engineer
Australia
8318 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2012 : 12:38:08 PM
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[/quote
as for the repo f/wall thats available? dont understand why they would bother tooling up to make them. out of all th damaged HKTGs ive ever seen, if firewall is damaged its probably not worth fixing
[/quote]
Totally agree, this was my exact question when they first became available. |
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
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petaus
Quarter Horse
488 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2012 : 9:47:22 PM
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i think the firewall was made with the intention of doing all the panels to make a shell, weather or not now that will still happen who know,s.
i really cant see a problem you can go out and make an old hot rod from new.
amagine a hk monaro with current ve running gear, i see no reason to add all the airbag crap or meet current adr,s
They say a fool and his money is easily parted, buy a house you get it inspected buy a collector car get it inspected very simple process. |
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Warren Turnbull
Vintage Veteran
Australia
1769 Posts |
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edelbrock1
Quarter Horse
352 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 6:13:07 PM
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I call bullsh!t on the HT 307 4 speed.
BUT.. IF it was a genuine 307 4 speed and he could prove it, the car would be worth restoring. |
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HK1837
Forum Engineer
Australia
8318 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 7:01:48 PM
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| Yes, aint too many of those around. |
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
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HKTG Parts Recovery
Quarter Horse
Australia
330 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 9:12:56 PM
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| How come every time I list a tag on ebay, the listing gets pulled and they suspend my account yet these blokes get away with it and rares dealers sell the tag rivets on there too and it is contravening ebay policy. |
Coming soon....HT 80270 windowless van, 253, Saginaw, Sports Dash, Pharoah Gold on Red |
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hqgts
Quarter Horse
Australia
417 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 2:35:22 PM
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| If you sell only the tags its against therules..... If you sell a bucket of rusty bits off your monaro with the tags thrown in for free.... Different story.... |
Edited by - hqgts on 04/05/2012 2:36:02 PM |
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Topic |
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rebirthing monaro's