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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| stephenreed |
Posted - 17/02/2012 : 12:07:42 AM
Hi,
Can people post links to websites which contain information about the HG panelvan, i'm struggling to find any good info on them.
Cheers |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| HK1837 |
Posted - 20/03/2012 : 1:12:29 PM
Has anyone got the Engineering data for the Aussie 4spds? This should show the V8 M21 aussie 4spd (at least the 2.54:1 1st gear version of it) being capable of more torque than a 3.05:1 M20 or M22. These boxes are not all that much different to look at internally (apart from teeth counts), as I suspect the HT V8 3spd isn't that much different to look at to the 6cyl box (and later V8 box). I can't say i've ever looked inside a HT V8 3spd box before, or at least remember doing so. |
| git |
Posted - 20/03/2012 : 11:35:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
You are incorrect again git. Not much of a guru, so I don't need to look out for you coming through. For the last time, the three speed all synchro gearbox that was made available behind the HT V8 WAS NOT A STRONGER BOX!!!! It offered different ratios to the six and obviously the longer input shaft. Nothing else. So, in the HG, all three speed synchro boxes were the SAME BOX with the SAME RATIOS, except for the longer input shaft for the V8's.
For your information, git, the gearbox mechanic I mentioned with 37 years experience had on his bench a Saginaw 4 speed, an Aussie 4 speed, an all synchro 3 speed and an HT V8 specific ratio three speed, all on the bench, all in pieces and he was able to show me the differences.
The topic title of this thread is 'HG Panelvan info'. I am saying that the all synchro three speed gearbox in the HG range was capable of being put behind a 161 or a 308, as the HG parts catalogue suggests the parts are availAble for.
If you knew anything, you'd know the id plates on an HK HT HG don't indicate transmission nor do they differentiate between 253 or 308. Better go back and read some more books, git.
[/quote]
Greetings HKTG Parts Recovery,
I have done as you requested and read some more. I hope you have read the books I suggested as that is where the correct info lies. I was well aware the topic was about 'HG Panelvan info'. It is very important to provide correct info when asked and not some made-up fantasy. The following HG Commercial (including the panel van models) powertrain combinations were available from the factory -
Trimatic with all engines
3-speed manual with all engines EXCEPT 308 V8
4-speed manual with V8 engines only
So you see a 308 V8 with 3-speed manual is a fantasy. That van you mention is also most likely a fantasy by the sound of things with probably HG80170 as the model # and not HG80270 as it would have with a factory V8 set-up. I know a little about HG id model codes.
I am glad you saw all the differences in the gearboxes you were looking at. The HT V8 3 speed box is a very different box to the regular one in many ways as you confirm. Not only is the part number for the gearbox different but so too are the part numbers for some (not all) major components within. In HG, this stronger box is not on offer. Have a look at the specifications of the HT 3 speed manual gearboxes and all will be revealed as to strength, ratios, clutch gears, counter gears, etc., etc.
Holden didn't offer the 308 V8 and 3 speed manual combination in HG. Maybe it is the Trimtaic which is also a 3 speed gearbox that is confusing you? 308 V8 and Trimatic was an option as listed above.
|
| HKTG Parts Recovery |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 5:12:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by git
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
Sorry Byron but I'm going to continue to dispute that a 308 was not made available with a 3 speed all synchro behind it. For one as I said previously I have seen the combination in a stock unrestored HG van and secondly, it would of been too big a mistake for Holden to confirm the combination in the HG Parts catalogue that would of been printed and distributed in the 100's to dealers nationwide, and not send out an ammendment rectifying it if wrong.
Where do you get the data of 410ft-lbs for 8 cylinder and 210ft-lbs for 6 from? The ONLY differences in the box from V8 to 6 in a HT was the ratios and the input shaft, as you mentioned. Also, as you mentioned the HG 3 speed was the same ratio for all HG whether they were 6 or 8. No other differences.
I spoke to a manual tranmission specialist today. He has been in business for 37 years. I spoke to him at great lengths about this topic. He showed me many boxes and internals and said that there are no differences between 6 and 8 except for the input shaft. He also verified that the 3 sped all synchro would of had no problem behind a 308.
May be someone out there in Holden land can elaborate on this topic. May be they know of someone who had this driveline combo.
Greetings, A most interesting topic. The technical specifications for the gearbox will be found in the features book as well as the engineering publications. The HT is the only model that got the strong 3-speed manual transmission, not the HG. It was not made at the time the HG was built. This transmission has different ratios in first, second and reverse speeds to the normal 3-speed all-synchro. Because of this a number of parts will be different. The guy with 37 years experience isn't much chop here, but maybe he has never seen one of these gearboxes?
308 and 3-speed manual in HG is another myth. The red van mentioned is a made-up creation at best. Everybody knows that parts books contain huge errors and misleading information. HG series has the most addendums of all models and for good reasons too.
Let's see some proof in the form of pictures and ID plates of a 308 3-speed manual HG.
You are incorrect again git. Not much of a guru, so I don't need to look out for you coming through. For the last time, the three speed all synchro gearbox that was made available behind the HT V8 WAS NOT A STRONGER BOX!!!! It offered different ratios to the six and obviously the longer input shaft. Nothing else. So, in the HG, all three speed synchro boxes were the SAME BOX with the SAME RATIOS, except for the longer input shaft for the V8's.
For your information, git, the gearbox mechanic I mentioned with 37 years experience had on his bench a Saginaw 4 speed, an Aussie 4 speed, an all synchro 3 speed and an HT V8 specific ratio three speed, all on the bench, all in pieces and he was able to show me the differences.
The topic title of this thread is 'HG Panelvan info'. I am saying that the all synchro three speed gearbox in the HG range was capable of being put behind a 161 or a 308, as the HG parts catalogue suggests the parts are availAble for.
If you knew anything, you'd know the id plates on an HK HT HG don't indicate transmission nor do they differentiate between 253 or 308. Better go back and read some more books, git. |
| git |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 11:07:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
Sorry Byron but I'm going to continue to dispute that a 308 was not made available with a 3 speed all synchro behind it. For one as I said previously I have seen the combination in a stock unrestored HG van and secondly, it would of been too big a mistake for Holden to confirm the combination in the HG Parts catalogue that would of been printed and distributed in the 100's to dealers nationwide, and not send out an ammendment rectifying it if wrong.
Where do you get the data of 410ft-lbs for 8 cylinder and 210ft-lbs for 6 from? The ONLY differences in the box from V8 to 6 in a HT was the ratios and the input shaft, as you mentioned. Also, as you mentioned the HG 3 speed was the same ratio for all HG whether they were 6 or 8. No other differences.
I spoke to a manual tranmission specialist today. He has been in business for 37 years. I spoke to him at great lengths about this topic. He showed me many boxes and internals and said that there are no differences between 6 and 8 except for the input shaft. He also verified that the 3 sped all synchro would of had no problem behind a 308.
May be someone out there in Holden land can elaborate on this topic. May be they know of someone who had this driveline combo.
Greetings, A most interesting topic. The technical specifications for the gearbox will be found in the features book as well as the engineering publications. The HT is the only model that got the strong 3-speed manual transmission, not the HG. It was not made at the time the HG was built. This transmission has different ratios in first, second and reverse speeds to the normal 3-speed all-synchro. Because of this a number of parts will be different. The guy with 37 years experience isn't much chop here, but maybe he has never seen one of these gearboxes?
308 and 3-speed manual in HG is another myth. The red van mentioned is a made-up creation at best. Everybody knows that parts books contain huge errors and misleading information. HG series has the most addendums of all models and for good reasons too.
Let's see some proof in the form of pictures and ID plates of a 308 3-speed manual HG.
|
| HKTG Parts Recovery |
Posted - 19/02/2012 : 10:33:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
Whilst holidaying in Tassie 10 years or so ago I came across a Rally Red HG Belmont panelvan, 308 3 speed manual with Gold trim. Stock as a rock this thing was and I spoke to the original owner.
308 with three speed column manual was offered for the first time in HG.
I'm not sure that the 308 3-speed combination was ever made officially available. I've seen several but none were factory.
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
Engine designation badge was located on the tailgate (except 161,173,202 which had none).
The several 202 HG commercials that I've seen have all had 202 badges on the tailgate, this is what made me look under the bonnet.
Dr Terry
Dr Terry please look in your HG Parts Catalogue for confirmation on 308 3 speed manual. |
| HKTG Parts Recovery |
Posted - 19/02/2012 : 10:31:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
I think Simon you'll find that with trim A is bench and B is buckets. That is how it is in HQ. B doesn't get you Kingswood trim, maybe Kingswood seats but the door trims and other bits remain the same. C would be interesting, as like the 308 3spd it was probably not officially available.
Sorry Byron but this is not the case. I am currently researching for Warren on this and I have tags as proof. The Belmonts reTained the Belmont trim except for when ordered with buckets the bucket seat trim pattern was Kingswood. There is no such thing as Belmont trim on a bucket seat.
Look in you HG Parts Catalogue for confirmation on 308 3 speed manual. |
| HK1837 |
Posted - 19/02/2012 : 6:04:01 PM
I think Simon you'll find that with trim A is bench and B is buckets. That is how it is in HQ. B doesn't get you Kingswood trim, maybe Kingswood seats but the door trims and other bits remain the same. C would be interesting, as like the 308 3spd it was probably not officially available. |
| Dr Terry |
Posted - 19/02/2012 : 4:21:09 PM
I remember an HG panel van at the 1971 Royal Easter Show Holden stand. It was Lina-Mint with Aunger Hustler mags & GTS sidewinder stripes (from HG GTS). It was a 308 4-speed Saginaw with buckets & GTS instruments. Not too many around like that.
I wonder where this car is now.
Dr Terry |
| stephenreed |
Posted - 19/02/2012 : 3:45:04 PM
Was there any 'rare/special' HG Panelvans? |
| stephenreed |
Posted - 19/02/2012 : 3:44:09 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Keep it coming. Very interesting.
What can you tell me about my HG Pano,
Model: HG 80170
Body no: 1641-a
Trim: 1801-11a
Paint: 568-12206
Small tag reads, 80170gj259459 HG Panelvan 12/70 hg12735a
Cheers |
| tranx |
Posted - 19/02/2012 : 04:22:31 AM
Dr Terry, the HG van that I have doesnt have the 202 badge on the tailgate. |
| Dr Terry |
Posted - 18/02/2012 : 09:47:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
Whilst holidaying in Tassie 10 years or so ago I came across a Rally Red HG Belmont panelvan, 308 3 speed manual with Gold trim. Stock as a rock this thing was and I spoke to the original owner.
308 with three speed column manual was offered for the first time in HG.
I'm not sure that the 308 3-speed combination was ever made officially available. I've seen several but none were factory.
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
Engine designation badge was located on the tailgate (except 161,173,202 which had none).
The several 202 HG commercials that I've seen have all had 202 badges on the tailgate, this is what made me look under the bonnet.
Dr Terry |
| tranx |
Posted - 18/02/2012 : 06:14:13 AM
My HG van's original colour is Frost Blue with Twilight Blue interior. Originally it had a 202 with a 4 speed, heater and radio. Build date Sept 71. |
| HKTG Parts Recovery |
Posted - 17/02/2012 : 11:03:37 PM
If I could ad to Byron's post, any Belmont ordered with bucket seats received Kingswood trim. There was no Belmont bucket seat pattern. I have stumbled across several 'C' trim codes on HG Belmonts where they have HT Basketweave vinyl, sometimes with the addition of the HT Kingswood cloth insert as a combination. Still unsure what the 'A' & 'B' represent on the trim code. Some thought the 'B' indicated buckets but his is not the case.
Whilst holidaying in Tassie 10 years or so ago I came across a Rally Red HG Belmont panelvan, 308 3 speed manual with Gold trim. Stock as a rock this thing was and I spoke to the original owner.
308 with three speed column manual was offered for the first time in HG.
All HG's had a black glovebox lid, regardless of model and trim colour. So HG Belmonts had that plain black glovebox.
When purchasing or looking at HK HT HG Commercials, one must always check the paint codes. A lot, and you'll be surpised how many, were painted in non standard fleet colours and there were hundreds of different colours. I had a HG Belmont Buttercup Bakery Bread van. It was red but I checked out the paint code and it was Buttercup Lemon Yellow with a Grecian White (HK) roof. It had blue trim.
All HG had black washer jets and no chrome on the interior mirror stalk or sunvisor pivots.
Engine designation badge was located on the tailgate (except 161,173,202 which had none).
All HG Belmonts had Deluxe heater/demister standard from Jan 71 due to a change in ADR. |
| Bruvpig |
Posted - 17/02/2012 : 12:51:50 PM
Yeah... I'd be a bit worried if that kind of info could be recalled off the top of my head :-)
Too busy remembering where my car keys are |
| HK1837 |
Posted - 17/02/2012 : 12:45:54 PM
There is no way that is off the top of my head, it is from the HG commercial order form and ordering procedure. I don't have the same thing for HK, others here do though. |
| Bruvpig |
Posted - 17/02/2012 : 12:06:54 PM
Thats pretty good for "off the top of your head" Byron!!!
What about the HK panelvan? |
| HK1837 |
Posted - 17/02/2012 : 11:11:21 AM
There is no known production figure as far as I know. Specifications are basically the same as HG Belmont. Standard configuration is 161HC and 3spd with bench and drums all round, with 161LC, 186, 186S, 253HC and 308 optional. Late HG commercial (post HQ release) has 173 and 202 for 6cyl engines.
Standard gearbox M15 3spd gearbox except with 308 where M21 Saginaw 4spd standard. M21 Saginaw optional with 253. Column shift M40 trimatic optional on all engines.
3.55 banjo standard. I think they may all be banjo except for possibly 308 M21 which should be 3.36 LSD Salisbury.
G80 LSD optional.
Disc brakes optional on 6cyl, standard on V8.
Standard tyres: 7.35x14x6ply
Bucket seats optional with seat separator except where M21 optioned.
Centre seatbelt with bench optional (mandatory some States).
Other options:
F60 Heavy duty front springs.
G66 Superlift shocks.
A22 laminated screen.
A02 Tinted Laminated screen.
C42 Heater-Demister Deluxe (with fan).
N10 Dual exhaust on V8.
U60 11 transistor radio.
U63 Deluxe pushbutton 11 transistor radio.
U21 Instrument cluster.
V01 Heavy Duty radiator.
K45 HD air cleaner 6cyl only (not 186S).
TP1 HD battery.
P02 Wheel Trim Disc
DG1 Rear vision mirror passenger side (mandatory in QLD, Vic, Tas & WA except where D44 fender mounted mirror specified).
Optional XT1 tyres 7.35x14x6 ply with tubes, OR
P25 - 2 x 7.35x14x6ply wintertread rear tyres (standard on front)
Air con C64 not mentioned as an option BUT stuff like heavy duty battery and radiator noted as standard on 6cyl when C45 specified. May be a hangover from HG passenger specifications. C64 was dropped from HG in 2/71 in any case.
Also, 6 x colours officially available on HG Belmont:
Warrigal Black, Kashmir White, Cascade Green, Cinnamon Brown, Rally Red and Sudan Beige. Plus late in HG production HQ colours became the norm especially commercials. Tunisian Turquoise was made available in April 1971. Cascade green deleted May 1971.
Trims were: Gold, red or green in A or B codes for bench and buckets, with XU3 (neutral headlining) available for most trims (mandatory on some late trim codes).
Warrigal black and Kashmir white had all 3 x trims available.
Cascade green only had green.
Cinnamon brown and Sudan beige only had gold trim.
Rally Red only had red trim.
Note that the items above noted as deleted in 1971 were definitely for Victorian production, but not confirmed as totally correct for other assembly plants. |
| stephenreed |
Posted - 17/02/2012 : 10:42:53 AM
I'm really just after general info like, how many made, specifications etc. |
| HK1837 |
Posted - 17/02/2012 : 07:44:42 AM
What info do you need. People here may have answers. |
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