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Sandman data - ready for critique.

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Topic:


Topic author: HK1837
Subject: Sandman data - ready for critique.
Posted on: 08/04/2005 12:45:17 PM
Message:

Ive downloaded the initial web page for Sandman identification for all to look at and praise/rubbish as you see fit. This page and the rest of the site will stay static for a while and will expand as more info comes to hand and I get the time. Please tell me if you have proof that anything of what I have written is not fact. Everything on the Sandman page is either supported by or derived from documentation (normally GM-H), but I am aware of conflicting info from multiple sources. There's a picture of my HZ Overlander on the site as well for those interested (bigger version of the one on my profle).
www.monaroparts.com

Replies:


Reply author:
Replied on: 08/04/2005 7:02:12 PM
Message:

You have been busy !

Looks good so far, Well Done.

Tony


Reply author: commodorenut
Replied on: 08/04/2005 8:02:14 PM
Message:

Very comprehensive Byron.

I cant pick any fault with it, but I dont know a lot about the ins & outs of the HQ-HZ range.


Reply author: cloudy
Replied on: 08/04/2005 8:26:45 PM
Message:

looking good!


Reply author: Intoit
Replied on: 08/04/2005 8:28:11 PM
Message:

Byron ,
You seem to be very thorough with your research . It is nice to see somebody like you dedicate their time to this series of Holden . Very well done . Will be interested to see more .
Cheers ,
Shawn


Reply author:
Replied on: 08/04/2005 8:43:31 PM
Message:

i agree with the post above, very thorough research, obviously you know your holdens, its amazing how many different ways there are to i.d. the real thing. could you possibly add hq ss/gts i.d. in the future?
also like the projects page, like to see how your restore the Warwick yellow HK GTS327! looks like it was used in the speedway.

70ute...
and a 68 kingy!


Reply author: 666
Replied on: 09/04/2005 02:33:57 AM
Message:

Byron,
What do u do in yer spare time?


Reply author: commodorenut
Replied on: 09/04/2005 08:51:48 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by 666

Byron,
What do u do in yer spare time?

Hehehe, when hes not researching Sandmans hes probably restoring old Holdens one step at a time.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/04/2005 5:42:54 PM
Message:

Chase bits for my Monaros, but the last few years its been build house, build shed. Now its landscape, driveway, retaining walls, move all cars and parts to new shed, fix old house, sell old house.


Reply author: 666
Replied on: 10/04/2005 01:06:04 AM
Message:

Sounds like married life, Aint it great!
But where would we be without our Holdens ?
Keep up the good work.

666


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/04/2005 6:01:34 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by 70 ute

i agree with the post above, very thorough research, obviously you know your holdens, its amazing how many different ways there are to i.d. the real thing. could you possibly add hq ss/gts i.d. in the future?
also like the projects page, like to see how your restore the Warwick yellow HK GTS327! looks like it was used in the speedway.

70ute...
and a 68 kingy!



I wont be doing HQ SS or GTS stuff - that is the domain of Ben Stewart and Warren Turnbull. They set the bar so high with the Monaro Story/Facts that it would be stupid to try to even compete. The interesting thing is though, that after the release of that book lots of examples have appeared that fit outside the mould of normal for a Monaro. An example being Woodsman Green, Brambles Red, Burgundy Maroon, Mako Blue and Warrigal Black HK Monaros being found - Ive seen and recorded ID off Monaros being originally painted in all of these colours except Brambles Red.
The reason behind the Sandman thing is all of the misinformation out there. This is nearlly always a result of the fact that the Sandman is so hard to identify due to it being an option with very little unique distinguishing features. I quite often hear people saying it hasnt got a derated GVW therefore not a Sandman. The fact that 4450lb/2200kg Sandmans were built, and the existence of XU4 optioned non-Sandmans exposes this Urban Myth for what it is.
As for my Warwick Yellow car, its stashed away for a concours resto, probably a retirement project as Ive got a Picardy red HK 327 and a Florentine Gold HG 350M to restore first. The body is surprisingly good, but needs most of the rear panelling replaced. It was made into a speedway car in 1975 and competed until about 1984. It was allowed to race in the 1985 season by special permission as it had a square tube roll cage. Luckily it retired to a paddock in Gunnedah (where the only things that rust are Fords!) until I found it in 1996. Its the second HK 81837 from Pagewood ie 81837KR-00002-H5.


Reply author: Intoit
Replied on: 10/04/2005 9:20:18 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

quote:
Originally posted by 70 ute

i agree with the post above, very thorough research, obviously you know your holdens, its amazing how many different ways there are to i.d. the real thing. could you possibly add hq ss/gts i.d. in the future?
also like the projects page, like to see how your restore the Warwick yellow HK GTS327! looks like it was used in the speedway.

70ute...
and a 68 kingy!



I wont be doing HQ SS or GTS stuff - that is the domain of Ben Stewart and Warren Turnbull. They set the bar so high with the Monaro Story/Facts that it would be stupid to try to even compete. The interesting thing is though, that after the release of that book lots of examples have appeared that fit outside the mould of normal for a Monaro. An example being Woodsman Green, Brambles Red, Burgundy Maroon, Mako Blue and Warrigal Black HK Monaros being found - Ive seen and recorded ID off Monaros being originally painted in all of these colours except Brambles Red.
The reason behind the Sandman thing is all of the misinformation out there. This is nearlly always a result of the fact that the Sandman is so hard to identify due to it being an option with very little unique distinguishing features. I quite often hear people saying it hasnt got a derated GVW therefore not a Sandman. The fact that 4450lb/2200kg Sandmans were built, and the existence of XU4 optioned non-Sandmans exposes this Urban Myth for what it is.
As for my Warwick Yellow car, its stashed away for a concours resto, probably a retirement project as Ive got a Picardy red HK 327 and a Florentine Gold HG 350M to restore first. The body is surprisingly good, but needs most of the rear panelling replaced. It was made into a speedway car in 1975 and competed until about 1984. It was allowed to race in the 1985 season by special permission as it had a square tube roll cage. Luckily it retired to a paddock in Gunnedah (where the only things that rust are Fords!) until I found it in 1996. Its the second HK 81837 from Pagewood ie 81837KR-00002-H5.


Reply author:
Replied on: 10/04/2005 9:26:02 PM
Message:

methinks something is missing?

btw the way, thanks byron, i did a search on warren turnbull and came up with www.monaro.cjb.net , anyone who hasnt sedn it yet definately should.

70ute...
and a 68 kingy


Reply author: Intoit
Replied on: 10/04/2005 9:29:21 PM
Message:

Sorry guys ,
dont know what I did wrong , but yeah , no reply intended ( something is wrong ! )


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 11/04/2005 5:39:34 PM
Message:

Hey Byron, did you get my email, re: the Sandmans.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/04/2005 6:00:23 PM
Message:

I replied to it. Let me know if you didnt get it.


Reply author:
Replied on: 12/04/2005 1:47:51 PM
Message:

Byron,
Love your work!

Pecker


Reply author: leith
Replied on: 12/04/2005 7:41:55 PM
Message:

looks great....good work Byron

Fastlane Administrator


Reply author:
Replied on: 12/04/2005 9:04:24 PM
Message:

Great Site Byron

Brings back the memories of driving my younger brothers 1970 HT 350 Monaro and later his HX 308 Premier and as they say "You will never be late in a 308"
Ken


Reply author: Jamie
Replied on: 14/04/2005 11:05:16 PM
Message:

Very good site mate.But the main thing i was told about Sandmans is.they were only built in 2 places. Adel and Bris. They were put together in Syd Melb Adel and Bris. XX7 and XU3 are bris Sandmans but Adel. didnt i.d them. They plate on your website for the HX is for a Kingswood built in Adel. the plate in Adelaide built was model HX or HZ8W M 70. M is for the Belmont shell and N 70 is the Kingwood shell. Remember all HX and HZ Kingswood Vans had a full hood lining in them. So to i.d a Sandman built in Adelaide is plated as a Belmont M 70. Body number is 123456 - A.Sandmans still came out with a 6 cyl.i have seen a 1 owner HZ Sandman without a full hood lining.But in them days you could order what you wanted. Soon i will have a digits camera and i can send a pic of the i.d plate on my Van


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 15/04/2005 06:56:04 AM
Message:

Hi Jamie.

To my knowledge, all HQ/HJ/HX Sandmans could be optioned 6 or V8, but the HZ Sandman had the V8 as standard equipment (no 6 cyl option.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/04/2005 08:10:44 AM
Message:

Jamie

From the info I have Pagewood didnt build van bodies except in the HQ series - bodies were assembled at Elizabeth. The vehicles were assembled in Pagewood (I think Dandenong was the same). All utes (ie 80 body styles) appear to have been built and assembled at Pagewood. The HX on the website is a HX Kingswood Sandman, with its body assembled at Elizabeth (weve IDd two of these so far), and the rest of the vehicle assembled at Pagewood. XX7 and XU3 are the option codes for the tyres on a HJ-HZ Sandman from ANY plant - you had to have one or the other, and yes Acacia Ridge is the only plant to stamp this on the ID plate. The HZ Sandman you refer to may not be a Sandman, as from the ordering procedure I dont believe you could delete the headlining. It may have been removed at some stage too.


Reply author: Jamie
Replied on: 19/04/2005 10:00:17 PM
Message:

im still not sure what you mean by the Kingswood Sandman. The S.A sandmans where still stamped as a belmont.M 70 and Kingswood N 70. that from i have seen was the different in bodies. All HX-HZ Vans had a full hood lining and light swiches in the door jams. That did confuse people.i own 2 vans,both HZ.the bodies are tottally the same. both factory V8.but the kingswood is a 6-3 spd and the sandman is a 308-4 spd. both have fullhood linings. That Van i told you about before. the Sandman without a hood lining is plated XU3. This old guy is a plummer from QLD. He told me he got it new and asked for it to have no roof as it might get damaged from his tools.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/04/2005 08:12:12 AM
Message:

Another XU3 Sandman. Ive only got one example recorded, ie one Brisbane example.
The Kingswood Sandman was out there and freely available in HQ and HJ, but only on the ute as there was no Kingswood panelvan. On the ute this gave you the stainless around the windows, disc brakes, forced ventilation (I think), 202 (on HJ), chrome tail-light surrounds and whatever else the Kingswood had as standard bar the side strips (ie chrome strips). Basically it was a Kingswood with an XX7 or XU3 option ie GTS wheels, dash, guards (on HJ), stripes etc. Ive got ID plate examples of a few of these, all with XX7 on the body plate. In the HX, the existence of a Kingswood Sandman is not backed up by GMH paperwork that I can find. However I have plates off three separate vehicles, all Kingswood vans plus I have reports of others. The ones I pulled off in the early 1980s was basically a new vehicle with very low kM, just smashed. The second set came off a one owner van with paperwork identifying it as a Sandman. Both of these had all Sandman options (albeit a lot of these are also Standard on a Kingswood), and both are 2200kg GVW ie XU3. The third has a GVW of 1950kg, and also had all of the Sandman options. It is possible this third one is an XU4 with a lot of options, but I need to do some more homework on XU4 GVW in the HX. In the HZ series the XU4 has a GVW 50kg lower than the XX7 for the same spec vehicle (ie body, engine), however this example has its GVW the same as the GVW for a HX XX7. Its an Elizabeth built 308, M21, 3.36 diff Kingswood van.


Reply author: Warren Turnbull
Replied on: 20/04/2005 2:10:17 PM
Message:

Had a read and found the following items might need some attention:

The HZ GTS was discontinued as follows: a batch of cars was made at the Adelaide plant in 2/79. One owner was not satified with the car he was assigned out of this batch and his car was made in 3/79. There were no GTS sedans built after this date.

The HX and HZ sandmans had GTS sports mirrors. (also all have GTS grille and headlight surrounds, I know that they are only painted but they are recorded as seperate parts for this reason)

N66 was replaced by N67 on the 18th September 1978.

HZ ordering procedure has the following colours for stripes (31/7/78)

DX5 Bright blue/blue green/dark blue on 1887 1931 2214 1935
DY1 as you have it on 1936 1937
DY2 oronge/bright blue/blue green on 1927 1930
DY3 as you have it on 1926 1933
DY4 white/blue green/ dark blue on 1929 1934 1938 1939
DL7 = delete stripe

Another identifier might be the interior light on Belmont/Holden sandmans. The HZ states it has interior light wiring to the doors unlike other M vehicles.

Might I also suggest that on a page dedicated to the Sandman that you include what the sandman option includes. You could use the system that GMH uses in its ordering guide. For the HZ it reads as follows:

XX7 includes:

B30 Carpet floor coverings
C57 Forced air ventilation
M11 Console floor shift
M20 4 speed manual floor shift 3.05: first gear
N66 6.0JJ x 14 rally wheels
QEU Tyre ER70H14 6 P/R steel belted radial
U17 Instruments oil, water, voltmeter, tacho, clock, facia black.chrome.
XS6 Front bucket seats
D14 Front door armrests
PLUS THE FOLLOWING SPECIAL FEATURES:

GTS headlight bezels, steering wheel, black painted grille and front sheetmetal
Cigar lighter
Kingswood door trim and hardware complete
Front door jam switch
Bright front door sill plates
Kingswood lion grille badge
Black paint out on front door frames and openings
Black paint door handles and windscreen surround mouldings
Colour coded left and right hand door mirrors
Black paint on upper tailgate (8WM70 only)
Mylar insert - rear window seal (8WM80 only)
Bright tail lamp surrounds
Full lenght headlining trim (8WM70 only)
Front air dam
Quartz halogen headlamps

DELETE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS

Holden front end sheetmetal, door rearview mirror, headlamp bezels, steering wheeland door trim and hardware complete, endgate holden nameplate, engate engine badge (optional) Holden grille and badge.

XU3 states same as XX7 except tyre option is QCP instead of QEU.

Alternatively you could link to a page that does have information on what the sandman includes.

You also mention option XU4 as a problem with XU3 identifiers but also B47 can be a problem, this is a comfort package and comprises B30 and full length headlining.

You state that the late HZs have GTS guards, I cannot find any reference to this.

Hope this helps.

Warren


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/04/2005 3:51:47 PM
Message:

Warren

I think the stripe colours changed along the way as I have conflicting paperwork that shows different colours, but the ordering procedure should be more correct. The part numbers also supercede to later numbers in the revised books - Ive been trying to find early HZ parts manuals to see what they say. The production option availability (dated 23/3/79) also shows DY6.

Ive got most of the above for the HZ, and was thinking about putting it somewhere, but I was waiting to try and get my hands on the HQ, HJ and HQ features paperwork, or ordering procedures so that I can write it for all of them. The biggest problem with writing it though is the revisions along the way, like for the HZ the change from N66 to N67 and the addition of TT5 and V5U later on in the model run.

The GTS guard info came from Ben. I cannot find reference to it either, and Ive been meaning to quiz him on it.

Do you have the date or month that the HZ 8WM80 Sandman was dropped?

Byron


Reply author:
Replied on: 20/04/2005 4:18:24 PM
Message:

great work byron, i can see alot of time and effort has gone into this site


Reply author: warren Turnbull
Replied on: 20/04/2005 4:42:55 PM
Message:

As it was only a production option I doubt you will easily find this information. I cannot see why GMH would have dropped it, but my paperwork does not go that late.

Warren


Reply author: Fletch
Replied on: 15/06/2005 1:56:22 PM
Message:

Byron,
Congratulations!! This is a well put together reference for Sandman Owners. Just a few points I would like to make mention of;
1) I would like to substantiate your comment that HZ sandman vans and utilities were fitted with the SLE wheels from late 79 onwards. I have spoken to several owners who have reported and confirmed this by sending photos of their vehicles to me. In the case of one vehicle the owner had ordered it from his local dealership and was still the original owner. At time of delivery he was advised simply that Holden had run out of stock of the Rally Wheels.
2) With regards to decals I would like to add/verify the following. I have retained factory samples of the following colour schemes
DY 1- Orange, Light Brown, Brown
DY 2- Orange, Bright Blue, Blue
DY 3- Yellow, Orange, Red
DY 4- Bright Yellow, Light Orange, Dark Orange
DX 5- Plum, Purple, Dark Blue
I have inspected (i.e., original decal kits fitted to unmodified HX and HZ sandmans) the following Colour Schemes:
?? ?- Dark Blue, Blue, White (fitted to a supermint green HZ van)
?? ?- Light Blue, Mid Blue, Blue - This colour scheme actually retains the same two outer colours as the Dark Blue, Blue, White colour scheme. This particular decal set was fitted an Atlantis Blue HZ Sandman Van and is the only one of its kind I have seen. I cannot honestly say that I cannot verify the existence of blue/purple colour scheme as I have not personally inspected or had a request for this particular colour sample. I have a vague recollection I saw a set of these on a van many, many years ago and that the purple was almost black in colour. It is interesting to contemplate what duco colour this may have actually complimented given the change in the green colour range from HX to HZ. I also believe that the new colour schemes introduced for the HZ cannot acurately be assigned part numbers. One additional point made to be by several owners is that in 79 several HZ vans were being delivered without the decal kits. I have been lead to believe that this was the case because the public opinion was swaying against their visual appeal. Consistent with this the HZ was the last Sandman produced.
3) There seems to be ongoing debate regarding the fitment of GTS guards to HZ Sandmans. In my experience of viewing genuine Sandman vehicles over the last twelve years I have never personally come across an unmodified factory vehicle that has had these guards fitted to it. Furthermore, logically, I can see no reason why they would have been fitted. I am uncovinced with regard to this point.
4) With regards to dual headlight (GTS?) fronts. I have never inspected a dual headlight GTS front that appears consistent with having been fitted to a HX Sandman Van or Utility from the factory. As you will no doubt be aware the GTS front fitted to HX was of the single headlight variety. It seems highly unlikely that Holden would have fitted the dual headlight GTS front it had reserved for the LE to Sandmans especially given that this front had not previously been fitted on HQ-J models. However, having said this I have inspected a factory delivered Sandman that had a Statesman front fitted. This specific vehicle was quite peculiar as it also retained Statesman badging, grille, and accompanying Sandman Decal pinstripes. I inspected the factory order sheets at the time and recall the option being denoted. I have been advised that the vehicle I am currently restoring XX7 utility did have a dual headlight front fitted but I have been unable to source accurate photos to confirm this.
5) In relation to grilles, I would like to add the following points. Firstly the HX and HZ grilles are actually made out of black plastic and were not painted as Warren denoted. At one stage Rare Spares were actually selling the GTS Black HZ grille inserts for about $120.00 I think. Additionally, I have inspected several undamaged original HX Sandman Vans and Utilities that were actually fitted with HJ GTS grilles including the GTS badge. I have no idea as to why this was the case but I have seen too many HXs with these grilles for it to be coincidence.
Hope people find this information interesting. I would love to hear from anyone who has pictures of a genuine factory fitted GTS front on a HX Sandman. Keep up the good work!!
Cheers,
Fletch


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/06/2005 7:09:52 PM
Message:

Thanks for the help, particularly the stripe info - I want to fix this up on the site. Ive got to do some more homework on the HZ and GTS guards thing. This info came from an extremely reliable source. As far as front are concerned, a Sandman is basically the commercial equivalent of a GTS, hence it got a GTS nose. In HX that means a single headlight front. In HZ its a twin. I dont know why HX & HZ lost the guards. In relation to your ute having what is a Premier/Statesman nose in a HX, such things were commonly done by a dealer, and hence the belief that it was there from new. The one with the Statesman front is extremely odd though. A Sandman without stripes is simply a DL7 option - not uncommon. There is a one owner example around the corner from me.


Reply author: Warren Turnbull
Replied on: 16/06/2005 08:24:20 AM
Message:

Fletch, I am unsure as to if the grilles are painted or not this is a quote straight from the GMH ordering procedure sheets for the HZ.

I, like you, also beleive the GTS guards would not be fitted, although all leads must be followed. maybe the one with SLE wheels you mentioned, if the build date of this car could be found it would clear up this point.

GTS badging wouldnot be unussual on these cars as many dealers did things to make the cars more desirable. I know a fellow who purchased a HX GTS and when he picked it up it had an HQ GTS horn cap. The car was on the dealership floor for a period of time and the dealer must have wanted to "dress" it up a little. I also met a fellow last weekend who has an HJ GTS coupe with Stateman front from the "factory" but more likely the dealer. Even my brothers HJ LS has some dealer items on it.

Warren


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/06/2005 09:07:33 AM
Message:

The SL/E were fitted from the 23/3/79, according to the HZ features manual.
The one owner Sandman I spoke of in the last post had aftermarket mags fitted by the dealer.


Reply author: gts082
Replied on: 16/06/2005 10:09:33 AM
Message:

well done,great info,cheers sam


Reply author: Warren Turnbull
Replied on: 16/06/2005 1:15:38 PM
Message:

Interesting that the features manual states that, as the last batch of GTS sedans was built in 2/79 and one in 3/79. the 3/79 had them but I know that the 2/79s also had them. There were no GTSs made after this date.

Warren


Reply author: Fletch
Replied on: 16/06/2005 4:25:30 PM
Message:

Nice work guys,
1) Warren, with regard to the grilles they were definitely black plastic I have a NOS HZ example in my shed to prove it. I also probably have a copy of the rare spares catalogue listing this from around 12 years ago if I can find it!! I have an original HJ black plastic GTS grille fitted with GTS logo that was fitted to an unmodified HX Sandman I purchased a long time ago (it may have been fitted by the dealer I wouldnt know except to say that the front this vehicle had not been damaged. ie., the grille had probably not been replaced). I have been told that some of the HX grilles were manufactured out of black plastic and then painted grey. I will check this out further!! I definitely know that HX and HZ grilles were both made out of grey plastic for Kingswoods etc.,
2)You guys seem to have a better idea than me as to the changeover time to SL/E wheels. I cant be sure when this guy purchased his but I will check through my emails, I think it was a QLD based ute, one owner. I am sure that it was getting toward the end of the HZ Sandmans production (whenever this was in 79).
3) With regard to the Statesman front end I have seen, this was indeed quite peculiar. I was told that they simply walked this front from one part of the factory to another and fitted it to this van. Given that it had the original decals on the guards and the paint was not blended or reprayed this seems to suggest it was fitted by the factory. I probably dont know enough to comment in this area, could this have been possible?
4) I have also been going crazy thinking further about the blue/purple colour scheme listed for the HZ. I remembered when we first collected samples (around 10 years ago) that we were very suprised to find that a NOS version of what we thought was plum, purple, dark blue actually had the outer colours reversed when we compared it against the Green Van featured in the HX brochure (with the drum kit etc. hanging out of it!). Furthermore, this colour scheme did not feature the distinctive plum (pinky) colour (Yes I am aware these brochures are over exposed but our colour wasnt even close!). Now this has got me thinking quite a bit!! Because, the outer two colours in this sample which we matched and can be seen on Alanas Kermit Green Panelvan are really different shades of purple. Additionally, I can clearly remember the backing of the NOS decal set we used to match our colours from was newer than other NOS samples I had at the time. It was whiter in colour but I also vaguely recall it had a slightly different 3M logo on it. This may suggest it was made later ie., around the time of HZ. Mmmmmmmmm. Is what we have reproduced really the purple, dark blue colour scheme from HZs? God, if only I had bought this set of decals!! At the time the guy would not part with them. They were definitely genuine and were stored in their boxes with the part nos on them. Thinking seriously about this I suspect we have reproduced the plum, dark blue colour scheme and mistakenly thought it was the plum, purple, dark blue (based on the fat it had three colours and was similar in colour to plum/ purple/ dark blue). I would be happy to send you a sample if you are interested Byron.
5)One question, I have been told that the HQ-J decals were also available in dark metallic blue colour. I certainly havent seen or have any evidence of this, and dismissed it as myth (perhpas a faded set or something). But I wondered whether either of you guys had heard or seen of examples of this.

I am doing some more hunting for original decal samples, so I will see if I can track down the HX-Z blue/purple colour scheme to confirm this either way. This will be a mighty task, but I will see how I go.

If only (I had bought all the NOS decals I could have), if only (I had taken photos of what my eyes have seen), back when I developed an interest in Sandmans they were so uncool!!

Keep up the good work

Cheers,

Fletch


Reply author: Fletch
Replied on: 16/06/2005 4:49:21 PM
Message:

Guys check out these links.

http://www.sandmanowners.com/pictures/members/alannap/newdecals.jpg

http://www.sandmanowners.com/pictures/members/alannap/after.jpg

Oh boy!!! I think we have actually been making the Blue/ Purple colour scheme listed for the HZ all along!!! The outer two colours are defintely shades of purple in my opinion. What isnt answered is why Holden have only listed the two colours Blue/Purple when for other decal sets (e.g., bright yellow, light orange, orange) they have designated different shades (and names) of the same colour.
Sandman Owners please dont write to me if you have applied your set to the van. I will assume you are happy, as we have certainly not had any sets returned or requests for refunds. Further to this, we have made the most meagre amount of money from all this work and are now investing this into making HQ-J decals.

Incidentally, we are going to make plum, purple, dark blue sets in the current batch but have discontinued the colour sample featured in the above links.

This is really interesting!! All I need to do now is to get a hold of that sample. Geeezzz.

Cheers,

Fletch


Reply author: Warren Turnbull
Replied on: 17/06/2005 08:50:35 AM
Message:

Fletch,

On point 3 when the car is manufactured the front and guards are painted seperately. They are fitted after things like the motor etc are fitted. So if a dealer ordered a front apron etc and had it painted and fitted there would be no need to blend it in. The guards etc are all the same.

As for taking it from one side of the line to the other, they all come down the one line, there were not seperate lines for seperate models. If there was there would be no need to indicate the type of guards fitted on the production broadcast. (the guards are different due to drillings for badges, done before painting)

I do not doubt the grilles were black plastic, would help with stone chips.

Sorry but I cannot answer your other questions.

Warren


Reply author: Sandman
Replied on: 04/07/2005 11:12:41 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Ive downloaded the initial web page for Sandman identification for all to look at and praise/rubbish as you see fit. This page and the rest of the site will stay static for a while and will expand as more info comes to hand and I get the time. Please tell me if you have proof that anything of what I have written is not fact. Everything on the Sandman page is either supported by or derived from documentation (normally GM-H), but I am aware of conflicting info from multiple sources. Theres a picture of my HZ Overlander on the site as well for those interested (bigger version of the one on my profle).
www.monaroparts.com


Reply author: Sandman
Replied on: 04/07/2005 11:19:44 PM
Message:

Hi, I like any info I can get on Sandmans. I have a HQ Sandman ute. 5/74 Im the third owner and known most of its history since new. Ive owned it since 1989. Its saffron, originally with a 308 and 4 speed. At present its away getting painted and I want to fully restore it. I was told there were only 66 HQ Sandman utes built, does anyone know how right this is? I emailed GMH and they dont have any info on it


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/07/2005 08:03:03 AM
Message:

If its a Belmont and Saffron metallic then you have a Sandman. GMH have no records of how many they made, supposedly. The build records dont help either as they dont distinguish between a Sandman and a Belmont/Kingswood.


Reply author: Sandman
Replied on: 06/07/2005 07:15:35 AM
Message:

Mine has Kingswood badges on it. Its XX7 though and was definitely bought new as a Sandman.


Reply author: Sandman
Replied on: 06/07/2005 07:39:18 AM
Message:

Byron, If you have always lived around Lk Macquarie, you may have seen my ute yrs ago. I lived at Edgeworth and worked at Cardiff in 89-90. I had the ute then. Although back then Sandmans werent really a collectable car.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 06/07/2005 12:21:11 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Sandman

Mine has Kingswood badges on it. Its XX7 though and was definitely bought new as a Sandman.



If its a Kingswood ute ie 80480, then Saffron paint DOESNT guarantee that its a Sandman, but if its an Acacia Ridge build and hence has XX7 on the body plate then it definitely is. Wow, another HQ Kingswood Sandman ute - Ive only got one other such beastie recorded (have 2 x HJ Kingswood Sandman utes recorded also). Id love the ID data if you are willing to send it to me for my Sandman register. I think last count I have nearly 100 HQ-HZ Sandmans on record now.


Reply author: Sandman
Replied on: 08/07/2005 8:01:15 PM
Message:

Byron, I tried to email you on your monaro pts site and send you a pic, but couldnt get through.
Im going to Brissy in a couple of weeks, if I get time, Ill drop in where its getting painted and get some info off the id plates for you.
How many HQ Sandman utes do you have on your register?
My brother saw a lookalike one in MAckay for sale a couple of mths ago. Was I nice job, but not genuine.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/07/2005 8:33:48 PM
Message:

You need to modify the email address, or get it off this site.
Only 1 x HQ Sandman ute and its a 308 Kingswood.


Reply author: mackv8
Replied on: 09/07/2005 6:56:44 PM
Message:

about 22 years ago a friend of a work mate had a hz sandman had a 308 auto air power steering a silver gts dash when he moved to wa the would not reg it the had to keep it reg in vic. wa would not reg it because they said it was not a sandman because it was column change and wanted a engineer report yet they had the paper work from gmh on it and do i wish i had photos and a copy of the paper work so i maust tri and find the ex work mate to see what i can find out about it


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/07/2005 1:38:17 PM
Message:

If it had a column shift it either wasnt factory that way, or it wasnt a Sandman. All Sandmans from HQ-HZ came standard with an M20 4-speed (floor shift), and you could option (depending upon model and engine):
M21
M22
M30
M40
M41

All floor shift.
Having said all that it is not unknown for wierd vehicles, including those not officially available to be released from Holden for various reasons. For example the purchasing owner may have been disabled and needed a column shift. A lot of the unusual stuff was done at dealers as well, leading to people thinking that they are factory. Remember also that in the HZ range almost everything that a Sandman had over a normal HOLDEN was available as an option, or sometimes standard in a package or on a Kingswood eg full length hoodlining. I think the only thing that wasnt optionable on the HZ was the GTS front, although a dealer could have fitted this for you.
All said I dont understand why the WA registry dept wouldnt register it as a column shift. All that had to be done was to say it was a HOLDEN or Kingswood, on which you could have a column shift and no problems.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 10/07/2005 2:43:00 PM
Message:

Hi Byron.

I take it the M30 transmission is a typo & should be M38, which is a TH350.

On that topic I have a question. Given that the Sandman ute production ceased in March 79 & the P/Van in Oct 79, the TH350 introduced around June 79 & only fitted with L31 5.0 V8s, which would make a TH350 Sandman a very rare vehicle.

Have you documented any Sandmans with the L31/M38 combo.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: mackv8
Replied on: 10/07/2005 10:26:00 PM
Message:

the van had the sandman decals on it he was the 2nd owner and now that i think about it it whould have bean about 1981 when i last seen it he had it about 8 months at that time.and the vans 1st owner they said had some problem with his leg or legs thats why it was colum auto the paper work said it was a sandman the reg prob was because they (WA) said no 308 van came in colum auto and bucket seats was genuene 2 seater(vic ambulance service had bo6 vans 308 colum auto bucket seats air and power steering)there was no hole in floor or trace of one etc and it had the short console too as far as i could see it was a factory van i had seen the paper work cheaked it out the handed over the $50 i had bet that there was no such thing not happy $50 was weeks wage then thats about all i can remember about it at the moment


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/07/2005 10:02:56 AM
Message:

Dr Terry - poor keystroking again. M30 should read M38. I have one auto HZ Sandman recorded and its an L32 M40 9/77. I also have two L32 M20 vehicles, and one of these is the latest I have recorded - its a 2/79. The remaining 13 are all L31, and of these 11 are M21 and 2 are unknown transmission - I have the VIN recorded and they are T plated, but have no transmission details. Both are in the TH400 era though so they couldnt have been M38 vehicles.

MackV8 - the HZ Ambulance pack 1-tonner and van did have a premier front, GTS dash, GTS steering wheel, buckets, V8 and column shift auto or floor shift 4-speed. Air and steer was not on all of them. Ive had three of them. Two were 253s, one an M20 and the other a column trimatic. The Trimatic one had air and steer. The 4-speed had neither. The third one is a 308 TH400 with column auto, no air or steer. My guess is the dealer that sold it bought an ambulance pack and dressed it up with stripes and sold it as a Sandman. The stripes and blackouts are the main differences. Chin spoiler, quartz lights etc. may not have been fitted but were easy for the dealer to install. The original DL7 (delete stripes) XX7 HZ van that a friend of mine has was purchased new by him in 1978. He had to wait 6 months to get it if ordered from Holden. However Wayne Jackson sports cars in Newcastle had got hold of 3 at the time, put mags and bubble windows and sunroofs on them and sold them as new secondhand vehicles. Basically they were new with less than 100kM on the clock. He bought the least modified one - an L31, M21. What I am getting at here is that they were hard to get, so the selling dealer may have dummied up an Ambulance pack van, or even a Kingswood.


Reply author: mackv8
Replied on: 11/07/2005 8:31:33 PM
Message:

byron the bit about the bo6 refers to what some ambo mates have told me the ones that they had in melb had the prem fronts no gts bits the sandman had belmont trim. the hg ambo that i have access to is a 1 tonner prem front prem door trims kigswood buckets 253 colum auto standed dash no air or power steering


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/07/2005 08:44:32 AM
Message:

Yes ambulances had Premier door trims and armrests, but they also had GTS dashes and steering wheels (well everyone Ive ever seen has). The white 253 column auto one I had a few years back had an original GTS dash which I took out before I sold it - Id say a lot of others have suffered the same fate. My Overlander is a factory ambulance and its basically original bar the doors and paint. Sandmans actually have Kingswood trim mostly. In HX/HZ the Belmont Sandmans and Kingswoods share trim code availability.


Reply author: Monaro202
Replied on: 21/07/2005 4:36:17 PM
Message:

I have just realised a local motor mechanic has a HX/Z sandman as his service vehical, its paint colour is white & has faded sandman decals in what looks like orange, blue & purple?, it also has a kingswood grill badge. I will attempt to get the owners permission to investigate the van closer, ie vin tag & tyre placard details & forward them to you byron..
I will let you know how it gos...

Kevin

HOLDEN The Great Way to Move


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/07/2005 5:19:16 PM
Message:

Great. the more data the merrier.


Reply author: HX-Sandman
Replied on: 22/07/2005 3:13:42 PM
Message:

Hi guys,

Thanks for the information in this thread - it made it a much easier proposition to identify my hx sandman ute as genuine.

If you are interested in the plate info I can send to you

Its an original 308 4 speed in mandarin


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2005 5:05:49 PM
Message:

You can get my email address off my profile here or on my website. As above, the more data I get the better.


Reply author:
Replied on: 24/07/2005 4:23:54 PM
Message:

sandman van (not mine) on ebay if anyone is interested...

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1258&item=4564233033&rd=1


Reply author: 74HJLS
Replied on: 24/07/2005 8:31:18 PM
Message:

I wonder if this is a real sandman, the steering wheel is not original on an HX, they only came out on the HQ. I dont think they were auto either

Cheers,
Pete.

Old Holdens never die, they just go faster.


Reply author:
Replied on: 24/07/2005 9:00:47 PM
Message:

im sure the chrome engine bits arent original either lol, youd have to get the id plate info.


Reply author: jeff
Replied on: 03/12/2005 4:51:31 PM
Message:

hi im jeff first time on this page i just got a van i hope is a sandman its model is HX8W M 70 BODY NO 201340-A TRIM1888-18V PAINT568-15951 ENG L31 TRANS M21 AXLE GU4 THE ID PLATE 8M70TF J533137X HOLDEN PLATE HX PANEL VAN 8-76 AHX O1180 M GVW1950 KG SEATING 2 i like to now more of what i got i like the work thats done for the page i would like to put some info in if i can thanks to all the help


Reply author:
Replied on: 03/12/2005 8:36:07 PM
Message:

have a look here : http://www.monaroparts.com/sandman.htm


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 03/12/2005 10:34:21 PM
Message:

Looks like one to me. 18V trim is Kingswood and Sandman trim in a HX, and a 1950kg GVW gives you about a 95% chance also. Its a very early example too.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 07/12/2005 4:31:24 PM
Message:

Hi Byron - found another ute for your register. Details e-mailed to you.


Reply author: Dominic
Replied on: 03/01/2006 3:34:55 PM
Message:

Hi there pls check this out/HX8WM70 /BODY 204258-A /TRIM 2214-65A /PAINT 568-15991 /8MTORFL355319X /L32 M40 GU4 /O8/76 AHX 05913A / GVW 1950 SEATING 2.I BOUGHT THIS VAN YEARS AGO ,FACTORY BLACK HEAPS OF EXTRAS FITTED ,HAD SILVER STRIPING . WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ANY INFO APPRECIATED


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 03/01/2006 8:05:09 PM
Message:

An original Tuxedo black with silver stripes Sandman. What a find! Pity its only a 253, but will actually be rarer than a 308. The 65A (Sienna) trim code on a HX8WM70/80 almost guarantees a Sandman. It should also have:

GTS dash and steering wheel, GTS wheels, full length headlining.


Reply author: DOMINIC
Replied on: 04/01/2006 10:52:21 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

An original Tuxedo black with silver stripes Sandman. What a find! Pity its only a 253, but will actually be rarer than a 308. The 65A (Sienna) trim code on a HX8WM70/80 almost guarantees a Sandman. It should also have:

GTS dash and steering wheel, GTS wheels, full length headlining.


Reply author: Dominic
Replied on: 05/01/2006 12:58:21 PM
Message:

Hi again its got all those plus a few extra factory options trying to locate bloke i bought it off.dont know about stripes thou have you a phone # or address to write to.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/01/2006 9:15:48 PM
Message:

I emailed you yesterday.


Reply author: Dominic
Replied on: 06/01/2006 2:20:53 PM
Message:

email didnt come thru.it is perreturns@aae.com.au pls try again (in lower case??)anyhow tracked down bloke i bought it off/he only remembers buying it from a caryard in w.a with silver stripes on it.


Reply author: Dominic
Replied on: 10/01/2006 10:19:47 PM
Message:

email came thru but wont accept attachment to it.so couldnt see what you sent.if you want i can email you my address & phone # ?


Reply author: sandmanfan
Replied on: 11/02/2006 11:37:48 PM
Message:

Hi byron, ive spoken to you before about my hx sandman panelvan, im just wondering if you might know whether the hx had the option of twin headlights or only singles? thanks


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/02/2006 11:42:53 AM
Message:

Only singles. If it looks and smells like a Sandman and has a twin front it will be a BO6 ambulance pack.


Reply author: sandmanfan
Replied on: 12/02/2006 5:39:56 PM
Message:

thanks for that byron


Reply author: secret26
Replied on: 21/03/2006 3:56:53 PM
Message:

unreal site! anyone know of a part number/trim code number almanac on the web?


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 13/05/2006 8:49:17 PM
Message:

hey byron, got a few questions for u and may be able to help with some answers?i have a hz panelvan,sandman? it has striping on it - dark and light blue with purple ? hard to see.the dark and light blue striping run down the side and cant make out what the purple? is {some design}the colour of the van is atlantis blue but it has been resprayed well sort of. a bodgy job. cheers


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/05/2006 12:43:50 PM
Message:

Its probably DX5 (plum, purple, dark blue) or DY6 (blue/purple) stripes. HOWEVER, Atlantis blue is paint code 1934 and according to the ordering procedure you could only get DY4 with that colour. BUT the stripe colours are somewhat ambiguous as you can see on my website. I actually guessed the codes vs colours for three codes so they could be around the wrong way. Or someone has bought the wrong stripes for your van when resprayed. With the colours vs codes on my website I think the first lot listed in the production option availability are incorrect as they are the same as HX, and someone forgot to fix them in the HZ manual. Id be more believing the 7/78 ordering procedure info and the 1980 revison of the parts text catalogue.


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 16/05/2006 11:27:06 AM
Message:

thanks byron,will back in touch later cheers again


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 16/05/2006 11:44:08 AM
Message:

im back already.byron on my tyre placard # it has 9946865.this seems to be 1 digit out from looking on sandman owners website.number there is 9946866.does this make any difference to being original etc.thanks again


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/05/2006 12:29:33 PM
Message:

Be careful of the info on that website as its not all there or not all correct. But the tyre placard quoted is correct for a HZ XX7 Sandman, with the XU3 version being 92001123. Dont panic if yours is different as its not hard to change a glovebox lid. Check for all of the other Sandman telltales. My website has details on it to help you with Sandman identification. The third icon on one of my posts will get you there.


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 16/05/2006 1:17:47 PM
Message:

thanks mate


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 16/05/2006 1:30:16 PM
Message:

everything seems to match up so it must be a sandman wow.thanks for your help .till next time catch ya later


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/05/2006 5:42:59 PM
Message:

Send me your ID for the register if you like.


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 20/05/2006 9:28:58 PM
Message:

hey byron,gotta get a few things sorted out,long story hey, will tell u later, then i will.what do u require {id}? .cheers again. jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/05/2006 3:03:24 PM
Message:

All VIN and BODY plate data, plus chassis number and GVW off the ADR plate.


Reply author: Fletcher
Replied on: 27/05/2006 11:54:37 AM
Message:

I have some information in relation to the earlier request regarding fitment of decals to an Atlantic Blue HZ Sandman. A DX 5 (as listed in 1980 HZ parts catalogue e.g., light blue, mid blue, dark blue) set of decals was fitted to these vans. I have personally inspected a few of these vehicles with original decals on them (1978 and 1979 models). The colour combination for the DX 5s fitted to HZs is as listed in the 1980 HZ parts catalogue (light blue, mid blue, dark blue). I have not seen any DY 4 sets (white, blue, dark blue)fitted to Atlantis Blue Original Vans. DY4s were fitted as standard to Supermint Green HZs. The two innner colours of the DY 4 (e.g., the mid blue and dark blue) are the same colours as the two inner colours of the DX5 (HZ 1980 Parts lisiting). The DX5 (plum, purple, dark blue) listed in the HX series catalogue was not carried over to HZs and was fitted essentially to Mint Julep HXs. Although the DX 5 shares the same part number for the HX and HZ listings it is listed and was supplied as a different colour combination. We manufacture the DY4s but have not had enough interest to justify making the DX5 (HZ version) and do not have an original colour sample to match them off. If you have a sample of your original decal you are willing to provide we mnay be able to make a couple of sets of these with our next batch of decals. However, it would be sometime before this happens. Let me know your thoughts.
Kind regards,
Fletcher


Reply author: ianb
Replied on: 28/05/2006 6:00:28 PM
Message:

hi byron, i have just purchased a panel van in white with side windows, black buckets and gts dash.the numbers are 09/76 AHX10851A GVW 1950KG SEATS 2 MODEL HX8W M70 BODY No 210133-A TRIM 1888-18V PAINT 568-15951 ENG L32 TRANS M20 AXLE GV7. Ihope this is the info you may want if this is a sandman. It is in not too bad condition for the age although i do need the rear section of roof sorted where the gutter meets the roof, the rest can be done as and when, at least it has rego and license.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/05/2006 08:08:51 AM
Message:

Its a Sandman, as in HX commercials only Kingswoods and Sandmans had Slate black (18V) trim, and since yours isnt a Kingswood its a Sandman.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 07/06/2006 12:38:56 PM
Message:

Hi Byron - just wondering if you can confirm or deny one for me. Im leaning towards this vehicle not being a Sandman due to trim codes.

model HX8WM80 :
Body NOs 185749-A :
Trim-1890-19V:
Paint- 568-15953 :
Eng L20 :
Trans M20 :
RR Axle GV7
8M80LFL339461X

Thanks

Nick


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/06/2006 5:27:31 PM
Message:

You are correct. Good start though - 4-speed HX ute. Is it a 2 or 3 seater?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 07/06/2006 6:01:35 PM
Message:

Chasing up the seating info. Twice this week Ive been close but no cigar on sandman utes. The 6cyl threw me to start with too.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/06/2006 9:09:43 PM
Message:

The 202 was standard in a HJ Sandman. Unfortunately its got 19V trim though. 18V on an HX 8M70 or 80 and its a Sandman. unless its an original NZ delivery.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 08/06/2006 09:17:50 AM
Message:

Has seating for 2 on compliance plate. Just a belmont.


Reply author: Michael
Replied on: 08/06/2006 10:08:23 AM
Message:

About Vans,i have a dud.
mine says
model-HZ8W M 70
body-416692-A
trim-1930-63V....whats 63V
paint-368-30521
eng-L31/trans-M21/axle-GU4
seating 2
no tyre placard inside glove box.
VIN-8M70THL416692Z
does anybody know what mine is.please


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 08/06/2006 10:19:32 AM
Message:

Hi Michael.

Whats the GVM figure on the ADR plate.

Dr Terry


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/06/2006 12:36:02 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael

About Vans,i have a dud.
mine says
model-HZ8W M 70
body-416692-A
trim-1930-63V....whats 63V
paint-368-30521
eng-L31/trans-M21/axle-GU4
seating 2
no tyre placard inside glove box.
VIN-8M70THL416692Z
does anybody know what mine is.please



Id be close to 85% confident that it is a Sandman with the supplied data. If it has a GVW of 1950 or 2000kg and has the hoodlining attachment strip at the rear Id say you have a 98% chance of a Sandman.


Reply author: Michael
Replied on: 08/06/2006 10:37:40 PM
Message:

Dr Terry, the plate for GVM is 2200kg but mine says GVW.Byron,it has a full hood lining in it. but on looking closer.it many been reshelled with another chassis. the chassis number ends in B and body says A. was it built in Brisbane and assembled in Adelaide.or does them numbers dont together mean anything.do you fellas know what the trim code is. or was it a type error of the time.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 09/06/2006 08:23:43 AM
Message:

Hi Michael.

GVW = Gross Vehicle Weight & GVM = Gross Vehicle Mass same thing really. GM-H changed to this around the same time they went to metric in the 70s. Havent been able to find out exactly when.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/06/2006 09:03:39 AM
Message:

Chassis ends in B or the ADR plate chassis number ends in B?
Brisbane built vans have a Brisbane chassis number and BODY plate, so something isnt right. Its only Pagewood (Sydney) and Dandenong (Melbourne) HJ-HZ vans that have an Adelaide BODY plate. It sounds like it may have just had a chassis change though due to accident or rust.
If its an Adelaide ADR plate with 2200kg on it it could still be an XU3 Sandman but its dud as you say as there is no way to tell for sure.


Reply author: Michael
Replied on: 09/06/2006 10:19:24 AM
Message:

sorry guys,my mistake. i just looked and it starts in B.too many hours behind the wheel.the ADR plate reads build 6/78 seating 2 then BHZ 22516A. loks like the chassis number is simular but its really hard to read and i cant read it propley.is there some acid cleaner ir something i can bring up the chassis number so its readable. thanks for your help guys.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/06/2006 4:47:05 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

Hi Byron - just wondering if you can confirm or deny one for me. Im leaning towards this vehicle not being a Sandman due to trim codes.

model HX8WM80 :
Body NOs 185749-A :
Trim-1890-19V:
Paint- 568-15953 :
Eng L20 :
Trans M20 :
RR Axle GV7
8M80LFL339461X

Thanks

Nick



I had the owner of this van contact me today. It has chassis number AHX00014A, and its a 4/76 build. All areas of the ute apart from the trim code point to a Sandman including the 1860kg GVW and the fact that the original books with it state it was bought as Sandman. Im of the opinion that it has carried over with the HJ trim code either by accident or by nature of the early build. 19V is a common trim code in HJ Sandmans but ive never seen anything other than 18V in a HX Sandman which is reflected also in the HX parts catalogue.


Reply author: BigMo79
Replied on: 09/06/2006 8:36:26 PM
Message:

Gday Byron,

I got a HJ sandman?? ute, wondering what you think.

built 10-74 AHJ01190M
GVW 2200kg seat cap:2

model: HJ8WN80
body: 454217M
trim: 1890-18V
paint: 568-15953
eng L31 trans M21 raxle GV4

Do you know if the kingswoods came with a seating cap. of 2, or did they have bench seats? as this may help to work out if it could be a sandman.

Also, your website says about studying the tyre placard to help identify a sandman, what do you look for?

Cheers on the work gone into your website.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/06/2006 9:23:13 PM
Message:

Possibly a Sandman. Good engine and box, but there is no guarantees with HJs especially utes and especially Kingswoods. If its a Sandman its an XU3 or a mistake with the GVW.

Kingswoods came with bench or buckets.
The tyre placard probably wont help you on a HJ, only HZ.


Reply author: BigMo79
Replied on: 09/06/2006 9:54:55 PM
Message:

If XU3 appears on the body plate, is this proofof a sandman? but this only applies for brisbane built cars.

Because it is such an early built HJ, could the 2200kg GVW have been carried over from the HQ V8 tags?

So there is no sure way of knowing, but it looks like the gts guards are its originals. It also has a 2 vent gts dash which ive never seen before. Has anyone come across these?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/06/2006 08:58:02 AM
Message:

Only for Brisbane examples. Have a look at the HJ Kingswood Sandman ute ID plates on my website. They are off a Brisbane XX7 but still have a 2200kg GVW - something is wrong. Either it should be XU3 or 1950kg.
If it has original GTS guards and dash it has to be a Sandman, exactly like the one on my website. Barring a mistake on the plates its an XU3.


Reply author: BigMo79
Replied on: 10/06/2006 5:41:24 PM
Message:

Gday Byron

Youve said earlier in this topic that 18V trim on a HX has to be a sandman, is this also the case with HJs?

Also, do you have any idea on the 2 vent gts dash?


Reply author: BigMo79
Replied on: 10/06/2006 5:48:49 PM
Message:

I checked out the HJ plates on your website, the XX7 with GVW 2200, seems like these discrepancies could have taken place back then.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/06/2006 1:53:34 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by BigMo79

Gday Byron

Youve said earlier in this topic that 18V trim on a HX has to be a sandman, is this also the case with HJs?

Also, do you have any idea on the 2 vent gts dash?



In HX 18V is listed as a Kingswood or Sandman, but the more data you collect the more things that break the rules show up, like the early 202 HX ute earlier in this thread. The only HJ Sandmans ive seen with 18V trim are Kingswood Sandman utes. All of the others with black trim have been 19V.
Not sure what you mean by twin vent GTS dash?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/06/2006 1:59:04 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by BigMo79

I checked out the HJ plates on your website, the XX7 with GVW 2200, seems like these discrepancies could have taken place back then.



I have 5 vehicles recorded like this, ie Acacia build with XX7 on the body plate but a 2200kg GVW. They span 2/75 to 9/75. This is a mistake of some sort. How many others there are who knows. Especially the non-Acacia vehicles which have no option stamping on the body plate.

Is the VIN on your ute 8N80TEJ454217J? Yours is actually the first Melbourne BODY plated Sandman I have recorded. I have no Dandenong HQ full data recorded and all the rest of the HJ-HZs I have are vans which have an Elizabeth BODY plate, even though they are assembled in Melbourne. Even the two L30, M41 Ewet HQ Sandman prototypes I have recorded are Elizabeth BODY plated with Dandenong VINs.


Reply author: BigMo79
Replied on: 12/06/2006 8:53:42 PM
Message:

Yeah thats the VIN thats on it, how did you know that? it is an early built HJ.

About the dash, i mean it only has the two outer vents, so the gts fascia only has one hole on the drivers side. Where the passenger side vent would normally be on the fascia it has a blank panel, it all looks factory.

Do you have any more info on the HQ Ewets, they where only prototypes werent they?

Cheers


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 12/06/2006 10:22:36 PM
Message:

Hi BigMo79.

Base model HJ/HX/HZs only have the 2 outer vents because they dont get forced air ventilation. The forced air was an extra cost option even on Kingswoods in early HJ.

In other words, the cars with 4 vents on the dash have fan forced air supplied thru the 2 centre vents.

You will notice also the heater control panel is slightly different with the lower lever just having hot & cold positions.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 13/06/2006 4:29:45 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by BigMo79

Yeah thats the VIN thats on it, how did you know that? it is an early built HJ.

Do you have any more info on the HQ Ewets, they where only prototypes werent they?

Cheers



Once you get to know Holden ID well enough you can either predict what the VIN will be OR when you collect enough ID plate data the cars begin to resurface. In your case check out the BODY number on the BODY plate, and compare it to the PSN (numbers on the end of the VIN).

With the Ewet, from what I understand the first one was the Ewet built in 3/72 with VIN 80480QJ318656 (yes it was a Kingswood) and was an L30, M41 with Air and Steer. The second one (5/72 VIN 80480QJ328091) has the identical build details and selling dealer but was Steer and LSD, but I dont know what the second one was built for.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 13/06/2006 4:39:15 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

Hi Byron - just wondering if you can confirm or deny one for me. Im leaning towards this vehicle not being a Sandman due to trim codes.

model HX8WM80 :
Body NOs 185749-A :
Trim-1890-19V:
Paint- 568-15953 :
Eng L20 :
Trans M20 :
RR Axle GV7
8M80LFL339461X

Thanks

Nick



I had the owner of this van contact me today. It has chassis number AHX00014A, and its a 4/76 build. All areas of the ute apart from the trim code point to a Sandman including the 1860kg GVW and the fact that the original books with it state it was bought as Sandman. Im of the opinion that it has carried over with the HJ trim code either by accident or by nature of the early build. 19V is a common trim code in HJ Sandmans but ive never seen anything other than 18V in a HX Sandman which is reflected also in the HX parts catalogue.



I conversed with Ben Stewart on this one. As it was built in 4/76 (pre HX release) and an Elizabeth HX it has to be one of the promotional vehicles and very likely the vehicle photographed for the HX sales brochure (http://www.sandmanowners.com/pictures/hxsandman/hxsandmanute.jpg).
Although 19V isnt correct for a HX Sandman, it is OK for this one as it was built during the HJ model where BLACK (19V) trim was OK for a Sandman rather than SLATE (18V).
What a find! Buy it now if you want a HX Sandman ute.


Reply author: BigMo79
Replied on: 13/06/2006 7:20:54 PM
Message:

Dr Terry,
I suppose i had never seen a gts dash without the forced ventilation before. Ill have to have a look at the heater control. Thanks.


Reply author: BigMo79
Replied on: 13/06/2006 7:26:26 PM
Message:

Byron,
Thanks for all the info.

Looks like the error in the trim code on the HX is another irregularity that looks not that uncommon with these models.


Reply author: nicko
Replied on: 20/06/2006 10:10:49 PM
Message:

just wondering how many hz sandman utes were built?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/06/2006 07:27:41 AM
Message:

No records of this AFAIK. However 7 of the 22 HZ Sandmans I have recorded are utes. The ute also stopped production in 3/79 compared to the van in 10/79.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 21/06/2006 10:36:25 AM
Message:

Hi Byron,

Care to give us a breakdown of how many you have recorded?
eg HQ ute 17 HQ Van 34 etc


Reply author: nicko
Replied on: 22/06/2006 8:27:49 PM
Message:

i just finished respraying my white hz sandman ute and I have heard there was only 3 white ones is this B.S. or what?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/06/2006 3:53:40 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

Hi Byron,

Care to give us a breakdown of how many you have recorded?
eg HQ ute 17 HQ Van 34 etc



I will when I get a chance. Will take about an hour to add them all up.

As for the white HZ ute question, I doubt it. What is the source? I have one Palais white HZ Sandman ute recorded - a 253 4-speed XU3 from Brisbane.


Reply author: nicko
Replied on: 24/06/2006 9:57:36 PM
Message:

hi byron it was 5 white utes not 3 i read it on the car Domain site under clinton shannons holden sandman. Mine was built 2/78 in adelaide L31,M21 VIN;8M80THL406618Z.I got it in brisbane about 3 yrs ago, Im still slowly getting it up and running . any way catch ya


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 26/06/2006 09:26:25 AM
Message:

The white sandman ute link is http://www.cardomain.com/ride/804218

I e-mailed the guy about 18 months ago - the 5 white utes thing was something he was told by a friend of a friend of a friend ;-)


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 03/07/2006 09:46:40 AM
Message:

An XX7 van for your records

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Genuine-Holden-HJ-Sandman-PanelVan-Panel-Van-Full-GTS_W0QQitemZ230003715621QQihZ013QQcategoryZ2030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/07/2006 6:56:01 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

Hi Byron,

Care to give us a breakdown of how many you have recorded?
eg HQ ute 17 HQ Van 34 etc



The numbers recorded so far:

HQ: 22 total. 21 vans (2 x 202, 12 x 253, 7 x 308). 1 ute (308 Kingswood).

HJ: 19 total. 17 vans (3 x 202, 7 x 253, 7 x 308). 2 utes, 1 x 253 HOLDEN, 1 x 308 Kingswood.

HX: 20 total. 19 vans (1 x 202, 5 x 253, 13 x 308). 1 ute (202).

HZ: 24 total. 17 vans (6 x 253, 11 x 308). 7 utes (3 x 253, 4 x 308).


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 12/07/2006 09:25:33 AM
Message:

I have another HX ute - thought I sent it to you about a year ago.

HX Coupe Utility
2/77
GVW: 1860kg
Seating Capacity: 2
AHX 23563S


Model: 8WM80XR
Body: 916343-S
Trim: 1890-18V
Paint: 568-15953
Engine: L31
Trans: M21
RRAxle: GV4

Tyre Placard: 9942991
Description: C78514 - 558kg load


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 23/09/2006 4:05:44 PM
Message:

hello there,abit of info! i just removed compliance plates from my hz panelvan and on the back of the plate it has in red ink the number 88 written, has anyone ever seen numbers hidden under the compliance plates etc before ? thanks byron.
jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/09/2006 5:17:34 PM
Message:

What are the last two numerals of the VIN number (skinny plate)? Ignore the Z.


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 24/09/2006 6:37:20 PM
Message:

gday byron , the number is 88 lol on the skinny plate. .cheers jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/09/2006 09:22:25 AM
Message:

That is what the 88 on the ADR plate means ie it belongs to that VIN plate. On all HZs the body number on the BODY plate matches the PSN (last letter and numbers minus the suffix off the VIN number eg H989788 where the VIN was 8M70THH989788Z)) on the VIN plate so they must have written the last two digits of the PSN on the back of the ADR plate so there was no mixup.


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 25/09/2006 09:50:43 AM
Message:

verygood thanks byron.this van i have has rust everywhere.i have cut the roof off and was going to try and put another 1 on! do u know any 1 that has done this or do u think it might be easier to look for another shell,rusty all over.any feedback would be most appreciated thanks again
jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/09/2006 1:03:17 PM
Message:

Keep in contact with Greg at ClassicOzWreck on 02 49598999. He gets good stuff in all the time.


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 27/09/2006 06:42:14 AM
Message:

thanks byron.another question for you! the shell on hq and wb are they the same as hj hx and z. panel van that is .thanks again
jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 27/09/2006 08:19:55 AM
Message:

All different, except HX/Z are close.

HQ has two types - 1971-?/1974 had side flutes just above and behind the doors. ?/74 to the end of HQ had no side flutes. HQ had HQ plenum. HQ also had no provision for retractable seat belts.

HJ had HQ wiring harness and hence big plug in firewall. Clutch linkage/rat-trap support on firewall is different to HX/Z. Other firewall harness holes differ slightly.

HX/HZ are very close, with only some minor differences. Somewhere in here the acclerator pedal became welded on instead of bolted. Plus later HZs had the two clutch pedal pivot points up under the dash. Second point is for 6cyl full cable clutch setup.

WB have windscreen washer points in the plenum plus no quarter panel lights. Some body bolts became metric thread at some stage in WB - never figured out when and which exactly.


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 28/09/2006 08:27:58 AM
Message:

thanks again byron,im looking for a hz shell if anyone can help
cheers jam


Reply author: fast freddy
Replied on: 10/10/2006 09:52:00 AM
Message:

can any one tell me what colour sandman decals go with persian sand paint. thank you.


Reply author: Tom
Replied on: 10/10/2006 1:38:15 PM
Message:

hi there,
i think i have a HX sandman ute?
built 9-76, AHX 11133S
GVM - 2200KG
Seating Capacity - 2
model - 8WM80XR
BODY - 904055 S
TRIM - 1890 - 18V
PAINT - 568 - 15953
Tyre Placard - 9942827
eng - L31
trans - M21
raxle - GV4

Any help would be greatly appreciated
cheers Tom


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/10/2006 5:23:03 PM
Message:

Yep. Its an XU3 HX Sandman ute. Slate trim (18V) was only available on a HOLDEN (nee Belmont) if it was a Sandman on Australian destined vehicles. Other base models with black trim got black trim (19V). In NZ however, 18V was standard on all base models.


Reply author: turbovlcalais
Replied on: 14/10/2006 9:36:56 PM
Message:

Does anyone know how i can get a hold of a build sheet on a Hx Sandman ute as i have just got one and i wanna put it back to original ?


Reply author: turbovlcalais
Replied on: 14/10/2006 9:50:54 PM
Message:

also can you tell me if this is a sandman ute
model.. HX8WM80
body no.. 214971-A
trim.. 2214-18V
paint.. 568-15991
eng.. L32
trans.. M20
rr axle.. GV7
gvw.. 1860kg
seating.. 2
8M80RGL364663X


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/10/2006 07:56:31 AM
Message:

Yes. Its an XX7 HX.


Reply author: turbovlcalais
Replied on: 15/10/2006 6:39:20 PM
Message:

but it doesnt have XX7 on the compliance plate...... and also would you know how i can findout the build sheet specs?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/10/2006 07:44:54 AM
Message:

Hardly any had XX7 or XU3. Only Brisbane built examples did.
What details do you need to know? HX Sandmans were really only base commercials with a few options.


Reply author: turbovlcalais
Replied on: 16/10/2006 8:06:04 PM
Message:

do you know what colour decals would have gone with this particular model as the colour was Tuxedo Black also would this be a rare model as i have never seen one in this colour before....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/10/2006 07:10:24 AM
Message:

The HZ ordering procedure list 2214 (Tuxedo black) as having DX5 stripes. But that is HZ, not HX, however it may be the same although HX DX5 is different to HZ. All of this is on my website www.monaroparts.com.


Reply author: Fletch
Replied on: 23/10/2006 11:11:52 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by fast freddy

can any one tell me what colour sandman decals go with persian sand paint. thank you.



Yes, the colour scheme was orange, light brown, dark brown. This is known as the "DY1" colour scheme and was also fitted occasionally to absynth yellow Sandmans in the HX range. DY1 was less commonly used in the HZ range of vehicles. Hope this information helps.


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 09/11/2006 12:44:30 PM
Message:

G,Day Byron,
here is the numbers from my van.
model HZ8WM70 XX7
body 480088B
trim 1934 63 C
paint 56730525
engine L32
trans M 20
rear axle GV4
gvw 2000kg
chas CHZ21810B
seating 2
gmh # 8M70RJ
vin H480088Z
tyre placard 9946865

hey byron ,i wanna paint the chassis,is there any particular black paint they used so as to keep it original
cheers jam


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 09/11/2006 12:48:09 PM
Message:

sorry made 3/79


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/11/2006 1:10:48 PM
Message:

GMH black. Dulon (PPG) still make it. Its a straight use acrylic, no thinning required.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 09/11/2006 5:46:38 PM
Message:

byron, who are ppg !
cheers jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/11/2006 7:05:04 PM
Message:

The new name for Dulon. Any Holden dealer sells it.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Munromad2004
Replied on: 09/11/2006 11:47:58 PM
Message:

I believe PPG actually stands for Pitsburgh Paint and Grease. I was watching one of those Foxtel hot rod shows and they did a tour of the PPG facility and mentioned the full name of it.
I believe it is the original name from when the company first formed many many years ago.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/11/2006 07:50:39 AM
Message:

Probably true, and there may not even be a historical link from Dulon to PPG. But they make GMH black, and PPG is what GMH now sells.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 10/11/2006 08:45:35 AM
Message:

Hi Guys.

The history of the Duco/Dulon/Dulux names in Australia is a curly one.

AFAIK these names originated from Dupont in the 30s or 40s. The product was then made in Australia (perhaps under licence) by BALM paints (British Australian Lead Manufacturers) until somewhere in the late 60s where it became Dulux Australia. Then in the late 70s it was taken over by ICI (Imperial Chemical Industries) a big pommy crowd. They were then swallowed up by PPG (Pittsburg Paint & Grease) which apparently in todays strange modern business world is actually owned by the French. Can anybody confirm this.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: hzute
Replied on: 17/11/2006 08:08:17 AM
Message:

hey byron do u know where i can get a hz v8 sand xx7 ute 1950kg tyre placard 9946866. i need one to replace the one that is missing on my sandy ute. all i require is a pic of one so i can get it made. or does anyone happen to have a pic? or know where there is a pic or know where i can get a new one?
cheers
jason


Reply author: hq ss
Replied on: 18/11/2006 10:44:14 AM
Message:

PPGs main share holder is Capital Research & Management Co 12,684,700 shares.There part of the capital group of companys.A group of investment management companies.Part of this company managed assets through September 05 of $738 billion for American Funds. Not sure who owns them. Big Big company.
In WA most auto paints supply places sell a form of chasis black


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 23/11/2006 5:28:41 PM
Message:

hi people, would any 1 know how many inlet manifolds were made for a 253 ? and does the 308 differ from 253. i have 3 and they are all different and they r all off 253 .note! not to do wit the carb. firing order the same but on opposite sides numbering etc, holes and fuel line, plugs and so on . cheers again as im on my 5th. regards jam / now 6th


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/11/2006 9:41:01 PM
Message:

A broad list is:

HT/HG
HQ/HJ/LH/pre ADR27A LX
HX/ADR27A LX
HZ/VB
VC/VH/WB

Not sure what the BS prefix Bedford carby had on it as they ran a 3 barrel Rochester and engine governer which may have affected the manifold in some way.
There are probably some variations within these groups regarding casting marks also.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: turbovlcalais
Replied on: 04/02/2007 10:34:06 PM
Message:

gday byron just got a couple of questions for you
the first ive picked up a secondhand brake booster with a big nut master fitted to it and i was wondering if you knew what car it is for the number on the booster is VH279 17 L6D and the number on the master cylinder is 21B7P it also has front disk on it......
my other question is do you still have your hk drag car as a mate of mine has one exactly the same .......
cheers turbovlcalais


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/02/2007 08:25:39 AM
Message:

Not sure on the booster and cylinder - Dr Terry is a better bet to answer that one.
The drag car is my mates car.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: grant
Replied on: 09/02/2007 11:45:50 AM
Message:

hi guys, just want to see if someone can tell me if i have a sandman or not. tags are
hj8wm70 xx7
3678128
189660v
56715942
L20 M20 6V7

It does have all gts options (dash,guards,full length headlining.
Also, if it is a sandman how much is it worth? It is really straight, hardly any rust at all,it also has a 350 chev on gas.
cheers guys


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/02/2007 12:50:17 PM
Message:

Email me. I need more info. ie seating capacity, GVW etc. But on the surface its an Acacia Ridge built XX7 Sandman van. The last digit of the body number is a B not an 8. There is one too many digits in the TRIM code and the rear diff code is GV7 not 6V7.
Im very interested in the data as 6cyl Sandmans are very rare nowadays, and I hardly have any recorded. Extremely interested in the GVW.
As to worth, even though its rarer than the V8 examples its probably not going to pull V8 Sandman $. Particularly since its been modified. Having said that, if youre going to invest $ into a Holden commerical as a modified vehicle, a Sandman is a good place to start as it will always have residual value as a Sandman. Value will also depend upon how butchered it was for the LPG conversion eg removal of spare wheel support, holes for LPG filler etc. If its in really good nick and original Sandman bits are OK (dash, guards, seats, door trims, headlining etc) then my guess is around $5,000-$7,000. If it had its original 202, M20 and was dead original youd probably get $10,000 or close to it. A V8, particularly a 308 in the same condition maybe $15,000 as opposed to a concours car which might fetch $25,000 or more, although the HQ Sandman will probably always be the most valuable. A mate of mine sold a 308 M21 HZ Sandman in Carribean Turquoise as a complete van, albeit with the wrong chassis for $5,000. It was rust free but needed paint and retrim plus a few other bits and pieces. One of the Fastlane members bought it.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: GRANT
Replied on: 09/02/2007 4:47:12 PM
Message:

cheers for the info byron,
seating cap. is 2
what other info is needed? im not sure what you mean by GVW?
cheers mate


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/02/2007 4:48:49 PM
Message:

GVW is on the ADR plate. 1860kg, 1900kg, 1950kg?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 10/02/2007 09:15:46 AM
Message:

dunno if it interests anyone but i have some new

hz v8 sand xx7 ute/pano GVW 1950kg tyre placards gm part no is 9946866

if interested drop me a line to j_ackland at aapt.net.au also include a pic of you sandy plates all 3 plz. as i will not let em go to anyone without a gen sandman for obvious reasons =)

cheers
jason


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/02/2007 11:17:44 AM
Message:

Can you send me a photo of one good enough for my website?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 10/02/2007 11:44:44 AM
Message:

email sent bud.
cheers


Reply author: turbovlcalais
Replied on: 13/04/2007 10:16:09 PM
Message:

Gday byron do you know if holden ever made the sandman panelvan in the wb as i have a friend who tells me that he has one and apparently there was only four made ....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 14/04/2007 06:25:19 AM
Message:

Anything is possible but as far as I know a WB Sandman never left Elizabeth. If you can get the ID and ill see what it says.
Holden dropped the Sandmans before the end of HZ so I very much doubt that any WB example was built after the decision to stop building HZ Sandmans was made, so any surviving WB example would be only a prototype.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rosenberg
Replied on: 18/05/2007 12:51:39 PM
Message:

what is the diff? GU1 GV1 GV7 ect. LSD.10 bolt. banjo?


Reply author: farrblake
Replied on: 18/05/2007 11:07:05 PM
Message:

Hi Byron Was just wondering if you could help me out with information on my panel van. I brought it as a rolling shell 16 years ago from a guy that assured me it was a Sandman.. All the numbers seem to say it could be from data sourced from your web site, but my vin number says it was built at Dandenong, and have been told by others that all Sandmans came from only 2 sites, Adelaide and Brisbane. So this led me to believe I had been duped, but hopefully you could clear things up, as I have been reading all the messages and came across the guys Sandman ute that came out of Dandy. Numbers are as follows

Model HZ8W M70
Body no 398457-A
Trim 1930-67V
Paint 568-30521

Eng L31
Trans M21
Rraxle GV4

GVW 1950kg
Seating Cap 2

VIN 8M70TH J5983312
Built 11-77

As it was only a rolling shell, have no tyre placard to go by. Any information would be greatly appreciated and it awesome the amount of work you guys have put in to research all these facts

Thanks


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 19/05/2007 09:25:40 AM
Message:

Hi farrblake.

The A in "Body no 398457-A", means that the body was built in Adelaide, but the J5 means final assembly took place in Dandenong.

The numbers look OK for a genuine Sandman.

Dr Terry


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/05/2007 09:46:21 AM
Message:

Whomever told you that Sandmans only came from Acacia and Elizabeth are full of it. Theyve probably misconstrued the fact that HJ-HZ van body shells were only constructed at Acacia and Elizabeth. When that happened they were given Acacia and Elizabeth BODY plates. Dandenong and Pagewood assembled the panel vans once the bodies were shipped and were thus given Dandenong or Pagewood VIN and ADR plates and chassis numbers. This means that HJ-HZ Panel vans (including Sandmans) were assembled in ALL 4 plants, but only Elizabeth and Acacia have matching tags. From my research ALL HJ-HZ vans had Elizabeth constructed bodies - never seen an Acacia one on any van other than an Acacia assembled van.
Interestingly Pagewood constructed their own ute and HQ van bodies, and Dandenong constructed at least their own HJ ute bodies.

I cant tell you for sure if its a Sandman but id be about 90% confident.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: farrblake
Replied on: 20/05/2007 3:49:44 PM
Message:

Thanks guys Help was much appreciated. I was also hoping you could tell me the original paint and trim colors
Thanks Shane


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/05/2007 9:56:13 PM
Message:

1930 is Palais White.
67V is tan vinyl, and unfortunately a trim colour common to Sandman and non-Sandman.
Check for the full headlining rear attachment bracket and door courtesy light switches.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: farrblake
Replied on: 21/05/2007 4:07:00 PM
Message:


Headlining was done years ago but am 99% sure it had one and not sure what door courtesy light switches are, but if your referring to the the black switches that turn interior light on when you open doors, it has them. Also if paint color is 1930 then what do the numbers 568-30521 mean next to paint on id tags.
Thanks Shane


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/05/2007 6:18:51 PM
Message:

30521 is the Dulon paint formula for Palais white. 568 is solid colour. 1930 is the Holden paint code for Palais White.
You have assumed correctly what I meant by courtesy light switches.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: nick
Replied on: 22/05/2007 11:16:40 PM
Message:

hey byron just wanna know if you have thiS PALAIS WHITE ute
mod-HZ8W-M-80
BODY-406618-A
TRIM1930-18V
PAINT-568-30521
ENG-L31
TRANS-M21
GV4
TYRE PLAC-9946866
SEATING CAP-2
GVW-1950KG
8M80THL406618Z


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/05/2007 06:22:24 AM
Message:

Yes I did, but I didnt have the 18V trim code.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Andrew
Replied on: 29/05/2007 07:41:54 AM
Message:

I have a question for Byron Rich.
I have recently purchased a HX that has seen a rough life, has been stripped to a bare shell and rebuilt using components clearly from other cars at one point in its life. Unforntunately none of the factory fitted accessories remain. previous owner says he is about 85% sure it is a Sandman. i would very much appreaciate your input on this subject.
Built 2/77. body 226893-A. trim 1888-67V. paint 568-15951. eng L32. trans M40. axel GU4. GVW 1860. seat 2. AHX25643A.
You have my thanks.
Andrew Rozenchu.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 29/05/2007 10:40:57 AM
Message:

Hi Andrew.

Do you have the model number, its the one on the top line on the body ID plate.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/05/2007 12:16:27 PM
Message:

Andrew

Assuming the plates match (they look to) and there is no mistakes on the plates it can only be one of two things:

HX XX7 Sandman ute - model code will be HX8WM80, VIN will be 8M80TGL37xxxxX; OR

HX XU4 HOLDEN or KINGSWOOD ute - model codes HX8WM80 or HX8WN80, VIN as above except Kingswood will begin with 8N80.

It is more likely to be a Sandman than not, but unfortunately with a 67V trim code I cannot tell whether it is or if its an XU4. If it is a Kingswood then its not a Sandman. To be a Sandman is has to have a seating capacity of 2 on the ADR plate and have a T-bar (not column shift).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Andrew
Replied on: 29/05/2007 12:32:38 PM
Message:

Dr Terry,
The model number is hard to read due to sikaflex from a second rate windscreen fitter. The information cant be garnished from the body number and other details? what i can see is HX8, from here i think W and either N or M, then B or 8, ending with 0. This is somewhat confusing, and, not knowing of its importance i have omitted this number. What do you reccomend for the removal of the offending substance? I feel i must add that air con, and possably power steering, were factory fitted to this particular utility. The colour is white with brown Kingswood interior.
I hope this additional information proves fruitful.
Again, my thanks.
Andrew Rozenchu.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 29/05/2007 12:54:49 PM
Message:

Hi Andrew

Yes, that is correct, you can glean the model number from the other plates, namely the number on the (skinny) VIN plate, but you havent given that either.

In your last post you told us it was a utility, which means that the model number would read 8W*80XR or HX8W*80, depending on where it was built. The * will be an N or an M, this will ID it as a Kingswood or just a base model Holden. The VIN would read either 8N80 or 8M80.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: Andrew Rozenchu
Replied on: 29/05/2007 1:44:42 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Andrew

Assuming the plates match (they look to) and there is no mistakes on the plates it can only be one of two things:

HX XX7 Sandman ute - model code will be HX8WM80, VIN will be 8M80TGL37xxxxX; OR

HX XU4 HOLDEN or KINGSWOOD ute - model codes HX8WM80 or HX8WN80, VIN as above except Kingswood will begin with 8N80.

It is more likely to be a Sandman than not, but unfortunately with a 67V trim code I cannot tell whether it is or if its an XU4. If it is a Kingswood then its not a Sandman. To be a Sandman is has to have a seating capacity of 2 on the ADR plate and have a T-bar (not column shift).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Mr Byron Rich
This information does cause some confusion, Why would it not be a Sandman if it is Kingswood based?, you yourself have documented more than one Kingswood based Sandman. The VIN you quoted is correct with the exception of the letter "G" being replaced with "R", Could you please tell me what this code means.
Again, my thanks for your time and research.
Andrew Rozenchu.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 29/05/2007 2:16:00 PM
Message:

Hi Andrew.

I know I not Byron, but I will try to help.

AFAIK the only Kingswood Sandmans documented are HQ or HJ, all HX & HZ Sandmans are base models (i.e. M code). This is why we need your model details from the body plate or the VIN plate.

In answer to your query on the G code in the VIN. The G that Byron mentions is a date code for a vehicle made between 1/9/76 and 31/8/77. The R you mention cannot go in place of the G, because there no date code R . For example he mentions 8M80TGL3.... the T is 308/5.0 V8 & the G is the date. It could read 8M80RGL3....., this would be the same style of car built in the same date range but it has an R (253/4.2) V8 engine.

Dr Terry


Reply author: Andrew Rozenchu
Replied on: 29/05/2007 3:03:03 PM
Message:

Dr Terry,
I appreaciate your time and input on this matter, I was told Mr Rich is "THE Sandman guru" and is his that i should be persuing, though i welcome anyone with the required knowledge.
Furthermore, i appologise for my previous error. The "R" in question does, infact, replace the letter "T", and not the "G" as prevously mentioned.
The VIN you mentioned is 8N80RGL3 etc. This would be that the vehicle in question is actually a Kingswood (8N80) and therefore NOT a Sandman, but the closest thing to being one without actually being it. Am i correct?
Looking forward to you reply,
Andrew Rozenchu.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/05/2007 6:14:38 PM
Message:

Andrew, I should have put an R in, but most Sandmans I have recorded are T (ie 308) so I just typed what im used to. You told me it was a 253 so my mistake. Makes no difference to it being a Sandman or not - it could also have been an L or possibly an S as well.
If its a HX or HZ Kingswood its not a Sandman unfortunately. The ones ive seen have all been HX Kingswood Panel vans, and I believe that they were all Ambulance packs (option BO6) with dealer fitted Sandman stripes. Ambulance packs were not available in HX or HZ utes.

And Dr Terry is a Holden Guru. Knows more than me on most Holden stuff, and quite often correctly picks me up on mistypes or brain misfires like the T instead of R bit above.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Andrew Rozenchu
Replied on: 30/05/2007 07:25:51 AM
Message:

I thank you both, Dr Terry and Mr Rich. i have learnt a good deal here. However, I have one final question. How does this vehicle come to have such a light GVW?
Regards, Andrew Rozebchu.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 30/05/2007 09:24:32 AM
Message:

Hi Andrew.

A non-Sandmn with the lower GVW is just an XU4 option pack.

Dr Terry


Reply author: Andrew Rozenchu
Replied on: 30/05/2007 11:11:45 AM
Message:

Dr Terry,
I understand the vehicle i have is an option pack XU4. Perhaps i could have phrased my question better, i am wondering what options are required to necessatate a GVW of 1860 kg of a V8 fitted utility. I appolgise for the continual requests for information but i have become rather curious of this car of late, and have no desire to be continually perplexed over what may seem a trivial matter.
As allways, my thanks for your efforts.
Andrew Rozenchu.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 30/05/2007 11:56:57 AM
Message:

Hi Andrew.

Im not sure if I understand your question, but Ill give it a go.

GVW is Gross Vehicle Weight (these days its called GVM for Gross Vehicle Mass). It is simply the maximum allowable total weight of the car including any loads. The Tare or unladen weight of a V8 Sandman Ute is around 1350 to 1400 kg, depending on options fitted. With passenger type tyres theyve restricted the load to approximately 500 kg (10 cwt or 1/2 ton in the old money), meaning that the total vehicle weight will end up 1850 to 1900 kg. Because of the many combinations of options, instead of saying it has a 500 gk load capability & then giving each car different GVW , it was easier to just say 1860 kg total weight. This means that a 6-cyl manual with no options can legally carry more load than a 308 TH400 ute with A/C & P/St etc.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/05/2007 12:41:36 PM
Message:

In HQ Holden released the Sandman as option XX7 with no change to the GVW of 4850lb (2200kg) for the V8 and 4750lb (2155kg) for the 6cyl versions. XX7 included sedan tyres. This was for vans and I assume utes were the same but I have hardly any of these recorded so that is open to clarification.

In HJ the XU3 Sandman became available - these were the same as an XX7 but load rated ie commercial tyres were fitted allowing for a 14.5cwt (XX7 was 10cwt). XU3 GVWs stayed the same as the rest of the range ie 2200kg V8, 2155kg 6cyl but XX7 optioned examples had lower GVWs - utes and 6cyl vans at 1860kg and V8 vans at 1950kg. Holden also released the same sedan tyre option on non-Sandman utes/vans and called it an XU4 option. XU4s had the same GVWs as the Sandmans.

HX stayed the same as HJ, but HZ for some reason changed. Later HZ XX7s became 2000kg, and the XU4s changed to:
6cyl XU4 HOLDEN and Kingswood ute - 1800kg (1860kg in HX).
6cyl XU4 HOLDEN and Kingswood van - 1900kg (1860kg in HX).
V8 XU4 HOLDEN and Kingswood ute - 1900kg.
V8 XU4 HOLDEN and Kingswood van - 1950kg (HX and HZ).

In the end for some reason Holden distinguished between 6cyl and V8 XX7 van GVWs but not in utes? I would have thought that vans were heavier, so I suppose that in order to get 10cwt carrying capacity they would have had the increase the GVW, but surely a V8 is heavier than a 6 as well so why did the ute stay at 1860kg for both?


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: no behalf of Andy R
Replied on: 30/05/2007 12:55:13 PM
Message:

Hello Dr Terry, Please forgive Rosey, hes just been bit by the car nut bug and being a pom dosnt know any better. What hes trying to ask is how 1 ute can carry 900kg, ie mine, and another with the same running gear limited to 500kg, ie roseys. what would the differences between the two be, wheel type and so on, from the factory. everyone here has a different thoery and bets are on.
Thanks, Ryan,


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 30/05/2007 1:58:34 PM
Message:

Hi again.

Now Ive got your question.

AFAIK the only difference between the normal commercial load rating cars & those with the lighter 500 kg rating (i.e. XX7/XU4) is the tyre type.

The rest of the car, chassis, springs, shocks & brakes etc are unchanged.

A normal Holden HJ/HX/HZ ute or van that is rated to carry 750 kg (3/4 ton or 15 cwt in imperial measure) comes fitted with at least 6-ply heavy duty tyres (& up to 10-ply for some model One Tonners). These result in a harsher, noisier ride, but they carry heavy loads safely & legally. If a prospective commercial purchaser doesnt intend to carry heavy loads, for instance he might just want it for camping or weekend use (e.g. a Sandman) he can order the car with passenger type 4-ply tyres which ride smoother & quieter as well as probably handling better, but legally that car cannot now carry heavy loads. This is where the GVW comes in. Prior to the introduction of the Compliance plate (1st Jan 1970) commercial vehicles had a Gross Load Limit plate on the firewall. When Compliance plates were introduced, the GVW figure was included on the plate to simplify things. The problem is Holden cannot legally fit low load rating tyres to a commercial vehicle & leave the (high) GVW figure on the plate. By law it must have the lower figure.

Where I have mentioned 4-ply & 6-ply tyres etc, these refer to the old cross-ply type tyre. The modern radial equivalents use a different load rating system, but it has the same result. I just find it easier to refer to them in old school speak.

You could fit 6-ply commercial tyres to an XU4 & then safely carry heavy loads. But technically its probably not legal. I have never heard of anyone being booked because they had a heavy load in a car that had the lighter figure on the Compliance plate, but now had the commercial tyres fitted. You would probably find that the average copper doesnt know the existance of a XU4 type option anyway.

Hope that answers the query for Andrew.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: Andrew Rozenchu
Replied on: 30/05/2007 3:28:54 PM
Message:

Dr Terry.
This does clear matters somewhat, and i thank both you and Mr Rich for such an invaluable service. this has been a highly educational experience for me. All that remains is to convince my wife to let me take the car back to England when we return next July, And to get this mob of yobbos to stop calling me "Rosey"
Again, my greatest thanks,
Andrew Rozenchu.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/05/2007 7:50:34 PM
Message:

What isnt clear is how Holden derated the vehicles. There must have been some science to it, but it doesnt make sense in some areas..
The difference in GVW for a 6cyl and V8 in a "normal" van or ute was 45kg (2155kg 6cyl, 2200kg V8). Here I assume they were 45kg different in weight due to the V8 or if not that is the reason for the heavier GVW in the V8 anyway, and perhaps the absolute design limit for say the suspension is 2200kg.
The difference between the GVW of a HJ/HX 6cyl XX7 and V8 XX7 van is 90kg (1860kg vs 1950kg) - this is closer to my expectations for the difference between 6cyl and V8 weight.
Yet for some reason the GVW of the V8 XX7 HJ-HX ute stays at 1860kg - the same as the 6cyl. This doesnt seem to make sense given the normal utes 2155kg 6cyl and 2200kg V8 and additionally the 100kg difference in GVW between a HZ 6cyl XU4 ute and a V8 example (1800kg vs 1900kg). Holden "fixed" this is HZ though raising the V8 XX7 ute to 1950kg.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rosenberger
Replied on: 06/06/2007 2:29:00 PM
Message:

looking through the holden collection by A.C.BUSHBY in HJ MODEL it has sandman ute & van. & kingswood sandman ute. no van. and in hz it has optional 500 KG models its got HQ sandman with sports vents like the monaro. HJ has sports vents. but no HX HZ have vents.HQ and HJ have the same decals. but HJ vents are not blacked out.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 06/06/2007 6:40:14 PM
Message:

Thats because there was no Kingswood van until HX, and Holden ceased the Kingswood Sandman ute by the end of HJ. The optional 500kg model is just the XX7 in HJ-HZ. Yes they are correct that HX and HZ have stock guards. In the HJ brochure on page 172 of that publication you can see that the ute is a Kingswood by the stainless mouldings around the side windows. Also the Kingswood side strips are missing, which is the best way to pick an original HJ Kingswood Sandman ute.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HX Sandman
Replied on: 21/06/2007 03:32:24 AM
Message:

Interesting info. I have just got myself a HX Sandman van to restore but had a couple in the very early 80s as a teenager. A mate had a HQ 202 4sp Barbados Green Sandman and I had a Contessa Gold 253 auto HJ Sandman. I traded the HJ in on a 308 4sp HX Sandman which doesnt conform to what has been posted here. I got it from a small car yard at Mt Gravatt just down from the Mitre 10 store. It was Mint Julip and had the Orange,Blue Sandman decals on it. This van had factory fitted GTS guards and the Sandman decals re-positioned to the rear of the doors like the HJ. It was originally ordered new through Zupps Mt Gravatt by the previous owner and came with the original log books and purchase papers. The GTS guards, stripe colour and power steering were options ordered with a note to move the guard decals to the rear of the doors.

I specifically remember the stripe colour as my Mother always used to say "Blue with Green should never be seen" and I thought at the time how ironic it was that I bought a car with a colour combination that was supposedly tabboo. Unfortunately I have never been one for taking pictures of my cars until my purchase of a digital camera a couple of years ago.


Reply author:
Replied on: 03/07/2007 9:22:41 PM
Message:

Hi there.
Would be able to check out these details for me please:
MODEL: HZ8WM70
BODY: 425148-A
TRIM: 1935-63V
PAINT: 567-30526
ENG: L31
TRANS: M41
R/AXLE: GU4
GVM: 2200
SEAT CAP: 2
It also has A/C and column auto with GTS dash,and a full hood lining.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Craig


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/07/2007 06:16:55 AM
Message:

If its a factory column shift then its not a Sandman. Does it have a Premier front and armrests or single headlight front and normal armrests?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author:
Replied on: 04/07/2007 9:02:59 PM
Message:

Unfortunatly single headlights and standered armrests.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/07/2007 06:13:12 AM
Message:

That normally means Sandman (except in HZ where Sandmans got twin lights). Yours is an optioned up HOLDEN (base model), assuming the column shift is original. If it had a Prem front and Prem armrests it would have been a BO6 option ie Ambulance pack, but still not a Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 24/07/2007 2:41:36 PM
Message:

gday byron / dr terry, i have a question for you ! did sandman panel vans come out with different ratio differentials ? i have a 3.36 salisbury in mine its a hz. thought it would of been a 3.08! also there is a number on the top of the diff housing the number reads 3 with a space then 27J8 any idea what these numbers represent.
cheers jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/07/2007 6:30:12 PM
Message:

Yes. 3.36 and 3.08 are common. 3.55 also quite common. 27J8 means 27th September 1978.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Dan
Replied on: 31/08/2007 1:59:53 PM
Message:

Byron, Having trouble deciphering a HZ utes codes. Supposedly a Sandman, but could be just a XU4. Has a gvw of 1860kg. Codes are 8M80RHL401387Z, HZ8WM80 BODY 401387A, TRIM 1935-18V, PAINT 567-30526, L32, M20, GV7, HOLDEN HZ UTE 12/77, AHZ07590A 1860KG, 2 SEATER
So far, 253HC, 4spd, Adelaide built,Caribbean Turquoise Metallic paint, 3.55 rear axle. Any other info would be great.


Reply author: ian
Replied on: 03/09/2007 1:43:07 PM
Message:

Hey there mate . Very informative site , I have recently purchased a XX7 hq sandman ( unknowingly woo hoo ) According to sites there were less than 100 of these cars ( Accacia Ridge ) It had a 5.0 M21 and GV2 ( 3.36 ) . Do you know how many of these vehicals had these options as i was in the understanding that the majority were 253 M20 optioned ??? Do you know how many of these vehicals were built ??? Would you have any idea on its value I am getting conflicting reports ?? If you could help would be great !! Cheers


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 03/09/2007 3:39:30 PM
Message:

Dan, its a Sandman - the 18V (slate black) trim code on an M coded commercial gives it away (unless its a NZ delivery). Yes 1935 is Carribean Turquoise.

Ian, ive heard there was about 100 HQ Sandmans built all up. But there is no proof. By my records V8 ones were more common and 173/202 rarer, but without having the build records that is impossible to tell.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Ian
Replied on: 03/09/2007 9:24:28 PM
Message:

Thankyou for that mate .. What sort of NOs did you need mate so that you could possibly give me some more info .. Any idea of what its worth , any idea how many would still be in existance ,, You seem to have a wealth of knowledge and everyone else i have approached give conflicting info . . I do know itds original color is chrome yellow , Trim code 187830b, other codes as follows L31 M21 GV2 8M70tdhxxxxxxx are theese of any help ? Thankyou again ,, Regards Ian


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 03/09/2007 9:25:06 PM
Message:

Hey dan.
I have a caribbean turquise mettalic sandman (van though). Its in the middle of a resto but still in its original colours and stripes. send me an email at thatdingosgotmybaby at yahoo dot com dot au and i can email you some photos so you can see what they look like. Cheers.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/09/2007 06:14:17 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Ian

Thankyou for that mate .. What sort of NOs did you need mate so that you could possibly give me some more info .. Any idea of what its worth , any idea how many would still be in existance ,, You seem to have a wealth of knowledge and everyone else i have approached give conflicting info . . I do know itds original color is chrome yellow , Trim code 187830b, other codes as follows L31 M21 GV2 8M70tdhxxxxxxx are theese of any help ? Thankyou again ,, Regards Ian



Ian
Email me the lot and I can compare it to others. 30b trim on a Belmont is another good Sandman sign.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Ian
Replied on: 04/09/2007 3:52:06 PM
Message:

Hey there Byron thankyou for your response .. Firstly is it safe too post all of theese numbers on an unsecured site as you do hear of people doing the wrong thing from time too time ? Can you let me know if this is the case .. Could you please be more specific as too the numbers that you need here ... The reg papers i have i dont think will be of any use as the motor has been changed .. how ever i have the plates available and documented so any no: that you need is not a problem , Thankyou for your time Cheers Regards Ian


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/09/2007 6:32:11 PM
Message:

Ian

Just email them to me. My email address is on my website www.monaroparts.com.
Basically all plate ID bar the ADRs is useful. So is the tyre placard part number. If its early enough in 1974 I may also be able to find other data out for you.
Byron

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 10/09/2007 4:05:40 PM
Message:

Slightly different HZ Ute for the collection
GVM: 1950k
Seating: 2
Eng: L32
Gbox: M20
Diff: GV4
Paint: 50328 (Saddle Tan Metallic)
Trim: 63C (Buckskin???)


Reply author: The Big Fella
Replied on: 13/09/2007 4:43:04 PM
Message:

Could someone please tell me what all this comp info means

I found a Hz ute contemplating wheather to fix of not GTS dash 308 Bucket seats Gts rims twin headlight front

Holden HZ COUPE UTILITY 11/77

Enj L 32
Trans M40
rraxle Gu4
body 450050-A
1958-33C
model HZ 8WN80

GVW 2155 kg


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 13/09/2007 6:52:13 PM
Message:

L32 = 253 High Compression
M40 = 3 Speed Auto
GU4 = 3.08 diff
8WN80 = Kingswood Ute, which means its not a Sandman
1958 = Sage Green Metallic in Colour
33C = interior colour


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 13/09/2007 11:25:30 PM
Message:

hi byron, is it possible to get info from the fiche about sandmans too? i thinking if the fiche has the option info then this may tell us things like "DL7" option etc....

i would like to know if mine had been custom ordered etc, factory black, 253 trimatic 3.08 diff

is the fiche the same info as getting a "letter of authenticity" from holden?

i have a bit of an odd ball hx sandman? I was talking to the geezer at eastern auto upholstery he said it definately would ave been a custom order considering it has a "sienna" (horrible terracotta colour / rust kill colour ) interiour which is mainly used in the toranas...

i can email you the id details if your interested as i have 3 sandman panelvans for the register...

cheers....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 14/09/2007 09:30:03 AM
Message:

Email them to me if you are willing, but you wont get option codes off the Holden records. They only list mechanical options.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 14/09/2007 11:43:38 AM
Message:

SANDMANXX7, that Black with light blue strip is HOT.

A1 Bogan.


Reply author: Sandman van
Replied on: 15/09/2007 12:04:16 AM
Message:

HX Trim codes.

The HX parts manual lists the HX HOLDEN except Sandman trim codes as:

19V, 19W, 45W, 60A, 67V and 67W

However the trim codes listed for the Sandman and Kingswood are:

18V, 18Y, 60A, 60B, 65A, 65B, 67V and 67X

What does this mean? If you have a HX HOLDEN (ie base model) ute or van with 18V, 18Y, 60B, 65A, 65B, 67X trim code, then you most likely have a Sandman.
...............................................................

Hi Byron, great informative site however I have a question as to the above info. My understanding is that cloth inserts were not available as an option on Sandmans, therefor only trim codes 18V (slate black) and 65A (sienna) would be correct according to the above. Do you have any Acacia Ridge built vehicles with a trim code other then these two? I would have thought 60A (chamois) and 67V (tan) would also be available on Sandman as these were Monaro trim codes.

My Uncle worked on the assembly line at Acacia Ridge from 1967 to 1987 and was a Holden fanatic. I asked him about Kingswood Sandmans, he doesnt remember a HQ Kingswood Sandman ever going down the line only HJs but there could have been some on another shift so he cant say for sure. He also told me the Kingswood option was dropped before the end of HJ production and no Kingswood Sandman utes or vans were produced after that. If you happen to find one it was dealer optioned due to short supply and high demand, mostly during the HX series.
How much you can rely on an old mans memories I dont know but the parts maunals tend to confirm what he has told me.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 16/09/2007 7:02:47 PM
Message:

That was me above, I have now joined.

Byron you probably have way more recorded Sandmans than I do but here is what I have so far and would appreciate if you could check your recorded trim codes.

I dont think Sandmans are as hard to confirm as everyone thinks. Below is what believe is correct but should not be considered as fact without further research.

Only HQ and HJ Sandman utes were available in Kingswoods, HQ, HJ, HX and HZ Sandman vans were all "Belmonts". Yes I know the Belmont name was dropped after HQ but it will suffice for now to refer to a base model.

Only two trim colours were available on Sandmans in each model in vinyl only, cloth trim was not an option.

HQ Sandman Kingswood ute ... 30B Black and ????
HQ Sandman ute ............. 30b Black and ????
Hq Sandman van ............. 30B Black and ????

I dont have any records of HQs but the few original ones I saw in the 80s all had black trim.

HJ Sandman Kingswood ute ... 18V slate black and 60V chamios/covert
HJ Sandman ute ............. 19V black and 60V chamois/covert
HJ Sandman van ............. 19V black and 60V chamios/covert

HJ Sandman Kingswood ute may have been available in other Kingswood trim colours but I doubt it.

HX Sandman ute ............. 18V slate black and 65A,V Sienna
HX Sandman van ............. 18V slate black and 65A,V Sienna

HZ Sandman ute ............. 18V slate black and 63V,C Buckskin
HZ Sandman van ............. 18V slate black and 63V,C Buckskin

All the recorded Sandmans I have conform to the above bar one which is a 11/77 HZ 8WM70 van L31, M21, gvw 1950, 2 seater in Palais white with 67V Tan trim. However I am inclined to believe this is an optioned base model XU4.

The HX parts manual lists the HX HOLDEN except Sandman trim codes as:
19V, 19W, 45W, 60A, 67V and 67W so if you have one of these codes it is not a Sandman.

However the trim codes listed for the Sandman and Kingswood are:
18V, 18Y (cloth insert so not SM), 60A (except SM as above), 60B (cloth insert so not SM) , 65A, 65B (cloth insert so not SM), 67V (except SM as above)and 67X (cloth insert so not SM)

This leaves 18V Slate black vinyl and 65A Sienna vinyl as HX Sandman trim.

I am willing to bet that the HJ and HZ parts manuals will give similar results. Byron, if you could check your data to see if you get similar results and if someone has the parts manuals to check the trim codes we may break the Sandman delema.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/09/2007 8:41:13 PM
Message:

Will have a better look later, but the problem is a lot of the trim codes are common to other non-Sandman base models. You are probably right about the insert trim codes not being available in Sandman, but as the parts manuals state Sandman and Kingswood I didnt want to leave any out. Plus if the trim code isnt available its not too much off a problem to include them.

What I have recorded is:

HQ - 30B, 35B, 39B, 30E. There will be others as HQ Kinswood had other xxE codes. Problem is B trim codes were available on HQ Belmonts with bucket seats.

HJ - 18V, 19V, 64V, 60A, 60V

HX - 18V, 19V (prototype), 60A, 67V.

HZ - 18V, 23C, 60A, 60B, 60V, 63V, 67V.

I have found 67V on at least 1 x XX7 plated HZ (plus on other non-Acacia examples).

I totally believe you about HJ Kingswood Sandman going before the end. The HJ parts catalogue sort of reflects this too. I think it was about the same time that the XX3 was introduced ie the 1976 model release.

I have to update the site when time permits. Collecting plenty of ID helps to solve some riddles, and HJ has a few which ID collecting has helped.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 16/09/2007 9:54:32 PM
Message:

Thanks Byron, well that blows my theory out of the water then. XX7 Sandmans with base model codes comfirms they were available on Sandmans. It doesnt make sense to list codes for base models EXCEPT Sandman when some were obviously available on Sandmans ???

I also just notice you have the HZ codes from the parts manual listed on your site, dont know how I overlooked it. I have recorded the plate info from Sandmans on Ebay and others I see, if you want them for your records let me know and Ill email them to you as you may not have some of them.

Cheers, Sean


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/09/2007 06:17:22 AM
Message:

Ill look at it better later Sean when I fix the HJ section on my website. I agree with you about the confusion, but the EXCEPT bit you are talking about applies only in HX and HZ plus remember there were HXs built pre HX release and these seem to use HJ trim codes.
Any Sandman data is welcome too.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZ Carlos
Replied on: 19/09/2007 7:25:11 PM
Message:

Ive reviewed your Sandman webpage and can add the following. Only Brisbane assembled Sandmans had XX7 after the Model number- Ive never seen an XX7 from any other assembly plant. I believe that all other genuine Sandmans had a spaced Model Number as you can see in the photo of the HX ID plates that you show. i.e HX8W N 70 - the spaces between W_N_70 indicate a Sandman. Ive seen plenty of Sandys over the years and this has always been consistent. The non-Sandman vans and utes had a model number without spaces e.g HXWM70
Ive got a few photos of HX Sandman ID plates for anyone thats interested. My email is carl@goldweb.com.au Cheers, Carlos


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/09/2007 8:11:31 PM
Message:

Carlos

Interesting observation. But unfortunately not right on the spacing thing. The spacing you are referring to was standard for Elizabeth (Adelaide) constructed bodies in at least HX and HZ. All HX vans from Pagewood and Dandenong in HX and HZ were built from Elizabeth constructed bodies so they have Elizabeth BODY plates. Ive got heaps of HX and HZ van and 1-tonner ID plates with the same spacing, and many of these are definitely not Sandmans eg 3 seats, 3 speeds, Kingswoods (or 1-tonners for that matter!) etc. The HX8W N 70 is definitely NOT a Sandman as its a HX Kingswood van.
You are correct about the XX7 only being on Acacia Ridge Sandmans, but the same applies to XV4 and XW8 HQs etc. Only Acacia Ridge did this.

All help and comments welcome. Im open to any challenges to what I have on the site. Some needs a bit of fixing too!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 19/09/2007 10:13:19 PM
Message:

hi byron,
i would like to ask you a question about the kingswood sandman theory...

if someone ordered a kingswood panelvan & ordered the rally wheels (gts) as an option, holden by law had to derate the gvw on the compliance right?
& if this was brisbane made they would get the xx7?

unless you can prove that the kingswood sandman compliance you removed was definatley the original rivets, chances are it was a stolen sandman or a rebirth? now if you look at half the vans out there these days the tags have been removed on a majority of them even just for respraying.


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 19/09/2007 11:19:02 PM
Message:

sorry byron just relised that the gvw derated figure is from tyres. not rims! ......i should read more.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/09/2007 06:24:12 AM
Message:

Sort of right. If it was a Brisbane van and you ordered sedan tyres (option XU4) it would have nothing on the plate UNLESS it was a Sandman and you ordered sedan tyres then it would have XX7. The second doesnt apply to Kingswood vans though as you couldnt order a Kingswood Sandman in HX or HZ. The difference is XU3 and XX7 are model variant options that got you a heap of features (the difference between them being the tyres), whereas XU4 was simply a tyre option. Other examples of model variant options are HQ 4-door GTS (model variant option on a HQ V8 Kingswood sedan) or HZ Vacationer. An option sort of comparable to XU4 is N66, which is Rally Rims (GTS rims) in HQ-HZ. These could be ordered on most all HQ-HZ but you wouldnt see N66 on the BODY plate of a HX sedan if Rally rims were ordered (although they would probably have been dealer fitted anyway so its probably a shaky comparason but you get the point).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Robbo
Replied on: 20/09/2007 9:31:23 PM
Message:

Hi Byron Its great to see so many people interested in sandmans of all models,and the work you have put into research is amazing.I bought a new sandman ute from Hillsdons Holden[which no longer exists] in Parramatta NSW in January 1979 when I was 22.It was palais white with blue interior,4.2 litre manual and it had the bright blue stripes with the thin orange strip through them.It did not have the gts guards on it,but it came with a 14 inch version of the then SLE commodore wheels.It was built in 12/78 and came with no radio.I still have all the purchase documents and the vehicle identification page from the owners manual, and numerous photos from when I owned it.I had to sell it when I got married,although I traded in a ford to buy it. cheers Rob.



Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 20/09/2007 10:22:10 PM
Message:

Hi Robbo, great to hear from someone who purchased a Sandman new. Post up some pics of it if you can and some pics of your documentation would also be great if possible. Sandmans didnt come with a radio as they were essentually base models, not sure if the HQ HJ Kingswood Sandman utes came with a radio though. They possibly did being Kingswoods.

I lucked out the other day, my HX has had windows cut into it and there was a windowless HZ on Ebay last week in the Townsville area that was to be scrapped if it didnt sell. I rang the seller and asked if I could buy the side panels off him if it didnt sell. He rang me back and said he would cut them out for me and I could have them for the cost to freight them to me. Really nice guy and he was just happy they would be used to restore another Sandman, hats off to him for doing that for me. It is nice to know people are still willing to go out of their way to help others. He told me he had a heap of calls and emails about parts after the auction ended and has parted a lot of it out.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/09/2007 06:16:34 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Robbo

Hi Byron Its great to see so many people interested in sandmans of all models,and the work you have put into research is amazing.I bought a new sandman ute from Hillsdons Holden[which no longer exists] in Parramatta NSW in January 1979 when I was 22.It was palais white with blue interior,4.2 litre manual and it had the bright blue stripes with the thin orange strip through them.It did not have the gts guards on it,but it came with a 14 inch version of the then SLE commodore wheels.It was built in 12/78 and came with no radio.I still have all the purchase documents and the vehicle identification page from the owners manual, and numerous photos from when I owned it.I had to sell it when I got married,although I traded in a ford to buy it. cheers Rob.




Rob

Id be interested in seeing the purchase documents and factory documents just to have a record. a 12/78 with N67 wheels is good information - they were fitted standard prior to the end of HZ GTS (early 1979), but exactly when remains a mystery to me. Also the idea of GTS guards on late Sandmans is still a mystery as I havent found an original car post 2/79 to prove or disprove it. The rumour is that the HZ Sandman got GTS guards back after the GTS disappeared, but no-one can show me any GMH documentation to prove it, or better still an original 1-owner late HZ Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 21/09/2007 07:50:29 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

Sandmans didnt come with a radio as they were essentually base models, not sure if the HQ HJ Kingswood Sandman utes came with a radio though. They possibly did being Kingswoods.



HQ/HJ Kingswoods did not get radios as standard equipment. As a matter of fact either did HQ/HJ Premiers.

AFAIK the first Kingswood to get a standard radio was the HZ Kingswood SL. This excludes Deluxes etc.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: Robbo
Replied on: 21/09/2007 9:07:50 PM
Message:

Hi all, these are purchase documents of my sandman ute. I apologise for the quality of some of them. I will post some pictures as soon as I locate them. Robbo
IMG_0193.JPG
IMG_0194.JPG
IMG_0200.JPG
IMG_0201.JPG


Reply author: Robbo
Replied on: 21/09/2007 9:10:23 PM
Message:

Sorry about that im having difficulty posting these photos.Robbo


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/09/2007 9:37:33 PM
Message:

Robbo

Send them to my email address:

holden at monaroparts dot com.

Just fix the at and the dot and itll work.
Ill see if I cam post them for you.

Byron

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Robbo
Replied on: 21/09/2007 11:07:19 PM
Message:

Ok thanks Byron, I will give it a go.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 23/09/2007 12:28:46 AM
Message:

Byron, I havent seen mention of just straight black Sandman decals and was wondering if they were produced. Below is part of the HZ Seawitch flyer I found on the net and the stripes and rear Sandman decals appear to be all black. I quite like the look of it on the yellow van as they go well with the other blackouts. Has anyone got an original flyer that they can confirm the colour off?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/09/2007 09:27:33 AM
Message:

They are blue with an orange border. DY2 I think it is.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 23/09/2007 10:37:37 AM
Message:

yeah i have this original brochure, as byron said it is a dy2 ... this was the recommended combination for a jasmin yellow & palias white hz sandmans dy2-orange/brightblue/bluegreen

i think the black decals your thinking of are the hq-hj series one sandman decals they were only white or black.


Reply author: Robbo
Replied on: 23/09/2007 11:29:20 AM
Message:

Byron, Did you receive the pics I sent to your email? I hope it worked this time. Rob


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/09/2007 2:45:37 PM
Message:

Yes I did. I have only had a quick look at them so far, but there is probably no point posting them up here, apart from maybe interest in the photos of the ute. Will try to do this for you soon.
The original N66 wheels on a late 1978 is very interesting though, as I thought this happened in February 1979.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Robbo
Replied on: 23/09/2007 3:36:36 PM
Message:

Thanks Byron.When I bought my ute there was a van next to it exactly the same as the one on the brochure posted by Absinth,colour-strpes etc.The only exception was it had the same wheels as mine, but the knob on the gear lever was a golf club style.I dont know the build date. Rob


Reply author: Kels
Replied on: 23/09/2007 10:40:32 PM
Message:

Hi, i am hoping you can help with some details on my PV - i doubt shes a Sandman but i cant find the bloody trim code anywhere.
MODEL: HZ8WM70
BODY: 445368-A
TRIM: 1930-67C
PAINT: 568-30521
TRANS: M20
R/AXLE: L32
ENGINE: L32

Cheers


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/09/2007 11:57:58 AM
Message:

Need more info. Whats its GVW, VIN and seating capacity? R/AXLE is wrong also.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 24/09/2007 12:26:41 PM
Message:

1930 is Palais white and 67C is Tan vinyl.

This one is a little more interesting as I cant find 1929 anywhere. Definately a Sandman though with Slate black trim.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/09/2007 1:07:35 PM
Message:

Absinth.
Never heard of 67C trim before. Probably just Tan in the Commodore vinyl, but never seen it before. I have a few Sandmans in Opaline Blue (1929). Do you have the VIN number for this van for my register? Is the chassis number AHZ00355M (hard to read)?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 24/09/2007 2:14:41 PM
Message:

I believe 67C is indeed Commodore Tan trim. You have the chassis No. correct. Vin number is strange, engine is correct, date is correct, doesnt match body No. and says is a HX????


Reply author: Robbo
Replied on: 24/09/2007 6:00:03 PM
Message:

Absinth, How did you get on with your side panels for your van?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/09/2007 6:26:36 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

I believe 67C is indeed Commodore Tan trim. You have the chassis No. correct. Vin number is strange, engine is correct, date is correct, doesnt match body No. and says is a HX????




Its the right PSN (or close to it) for the chassis no. and BODY plate. I also have AHZ00395M on record. Its BODY number is 396557 and its PSN is J597059.
And AHZ00195M which has BODY number 394934 and PSN J594782.

Perfect example of how BODY, chassis and PSN can vary for vehicles supposedly close together, especially in Elizabeth bodied vehicles completed in Dandenong or Pagewood. This is why this van has an Elizabeth BODY plate but Dandenong VIN and chassis. Normal for HJ-HZ vans completed in Dandenong and Pagewood.
The X is a mistake by my reckoning. Seen this before - look at the HQ ID on my web page with the J on the end of the VIN.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Kels
Replied on: 24/09/2007 9:04:41 PM
Message:

Cheers for that info on the trim.
Yeah, R/AXLE is GV4
VIN: 8M70RJL445368Z
GVW: 2200
CHZ50574A

Any info you could tell me would be great.

Cheers


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 24/09/2007 10:37:23 PM
Message:

Byron, here is some of the Sandman details I have collected. You probably already have some of them.

VAN HX HX8WM70 BODY NO 201340-A TRIM1888-18V PAINT568-15951 ENG L31 TRANS M21 AXLE GU4 THE ID PLATE 8M70TF J533137X HOLDEN PLATE HX PANEL VAN 8-76 AHX O1180 M GVW1950 KG SEATING 2 Slate black vinyl trim

VAN HX HX8WM70 /BODY 204258-A /TRIM 2214-65A /PAINT 568-15991 /8MTORFL355319X /L32 M40 GU4 /O8/76 AHX 05913A / GVW 1950 SEATING 2 Sienna vinyl trim

VAN HX HX8WM70; 09/76 AHX10851A GVW 1950KG SEATS 2 MODEL;body 210133-A TRIM 1888-18V PAINT 568-15951 ENG L32 TRANS M20 AXLE GV7. Slate black vinyl

UTE HJ Kingswood HJ8WN80 XX7;?-75 BHJ04763B; GVW 2200kg seat cap:2; model; body: 353860B; trim: 1896-18V; paint: 567-15942; eng L31 trans M21 raxle GV4; vin 8N80TEH353860J Slate black vinyl

UTE HX HX8WM80 :4/76; Body NOs 185749-A : Trim-1890-19V:Paint- 568-15953 : Eng L20 : Trans M20 : RR Axle GV7: 1860kg GVW; 8M80LFL339461X Black vinyl

VAN HZ HZ8WM70; 6/78; chassis-BHZ 22516A; body-416692-A;trim-1930-63V; paint-368-30521; eng-L31/trans-M21/axle-GU4; GVW 2200; seating 2; VIN-8M70THL416692Z Buckskin vinyl

UTE HJ Kingswood HJ8WN80; 10-74 AHJ01190M; GVW 2200kg seat cap:2; model; body: 454217M; trim: 1890-18V; paint: 568-15953; eng L31 trans M21 raxle GV4 Slate black vinyl

UTE HX 8WM80XR; 2/77; GVW: 1860kg; Seating Capacity: 2; AHX 23563S; Body: 916343-S; Trim: 1890-18V; Paint: 568-15953; Engine: L31; Trans:; M21; RRAxle: GV4; Tyre Placard: 9942991; Description: C78514 - 558kg load Slate black vinyl

UTE HX 8WM80XR; built 9-76, AHX 11133S; GVM - 2200KG; Seating Capacity – 2; BODY - 904055 S; TRIM - 1890 - 18V; PAINT - 568 – 15953; Tyre Placard – 9942827; eng - L31; trans - M21 ; raxle - GV4 Slate black vinyl

UTE HX HX8WM80; body no.. 214971-A; trim.. 2214-18V; paint.. 568-15991; eng.. L32; trans.. M20; rr axle.. GV7; gvw.. 1860kg; seating.. 2; 8M80RGL364663X Slate black vinyl

VAN HZ HZ8WM70 XX7; body 480088B; trim 1934 63C; paint 56730525; engine L32; trans M 20; rear axle GV4; gvw 2000kg; chas CHZ21810B; seating 2; vin 8M70RJH480088Z; tyre placard 9946865 Buckskin vinyl

VAN HJ HJ8WM70 xx7; 3678128; 1896 60v; 567 15942; seats 2; engL20; trans; M20; axle GU7 Chamois/Covert vinyl

VAN HJ HJ8WM70 XX7; body 378914-B; 3/76; chassis BHJ23**7B; gvw 1950; seats 2; trim 1900 64V; paint 567 15946; eng L31; trans M21; axle GV4; vin 8M70TFH378914J; Gazelle vinyl

VAN HZ HZ8WM70; Body no 398457-A; Trim 1930-67V; Paint 568-30521; Eng L31; Trans M21; Rraxle GV4; GVW 1950kg; Seating Cap 2; VIN 8M70THJ5983312; Built 11-77 TAN vinyl

UTE HZ HZ8WM80; BODY-406618-A; TRIM1930-18V; PAINT-568-30521; ENG-L31; TRANS; M21; GV4; TYRE PLAC-9946866; SEATING CAP-2; GVW-1950KG ; 8M80THL406618Z Slate black vinyl

UTE HZ HZ8WM80; 8M80RHL401387Z, HZ8WM80 BODY 401387A, TRIM 1935-18V, PAINT 567-30526, L32, M20, GV7, HOLDEN HZ UTE 12/77, AHZ07590A 1860KG, 2 SEATER Slate black vinyl

UTE HJ HJ8WM80 XX7; 5/75; ch BHJ13556B; GVW 2200; 2 seat; Vin ; body 351623B; trim 1890-60V; paint 568 15953; eng L32; trans M20; axle GU4 Chamois/Covert vinyl

VAN HZ HZ8WM70; body 417594A; trim 1934 63V; paint 567 30525; eng L31; trans M21; axle GV4; gvw 2000; seats 2; Buckskin vinyl

UTE HX HX8WM80; body 237211A; 6/77; chassis AHX34526A; trim 1886 18V; paint 568 15949; eng L31; trans M41; axle GU4; vin 8M80TGL384074X; GVW 1860; seats 2; Slate black vinyl ..confirmed Sandman Overlander

VAN HZ HZ8WM70; body 397025-A; 11/77; chassis AHZ00355M; gvw 1950; seats 2; trim 1929 18V; paint 568 30520; eng L31; trans M21; axle GV4; vin 8M70THJ596071X; Slate black vinyl misprint vin

VAN HX HX8WM70; body 232976-A; 4/77; chassis AHX29578S; gvw 1950; seats 2; vin 8M70TGH922351X; trim 1888 18V; paint 568-15951; eng L31; M41; GU4; Slate black vinyl confirmed Sandman in original cond.

VAN HZ HZ8WM70 XX7; Body - 438158B; Trim - 1934 63V; Paint - 567 30525; Eng - L32; Trans - M20; axle GV7; vin 8M70RHH438158Z; 12/77; gvm 1950; Buckskin vinyl

VAN HJ HJ8WM70; body no-167823-A; trim-1886-19v; paint-5678-15949; eng-L32; trans-m20; axle-gu4; vin 8M70RFJ499933 seating cap -2; gvm 1950 kg; Black vinyl


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/09/2007 06:15:58 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Kels

Cheers for that info on the trim.
Yeah, R/AXLE is GV4
VIN: 8M70RJL445368Z
GVW: 2200
CHZ50574A

Any info you could tell me would be great.

Cheers




Its a hard one to pick. There is a good chance its an XU3 Sandman. How original is it? Does it still have its tyre placard (in HZ Sandmans had a unique placard)? Does it have attachment points at the rear for the full length headlining? Have a look on my website for a photo of the headlining attachment points and placard numbers.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 25/09/2007 07:54:30 AM
Message:

interesting to see the HZs

seems that some of the early ones did have the 1860KG gvw? then went to 1950. then later 2000?


Reply author: Kels
Replied on: 25/09/2007 11:27:27 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

quote:
Originally posted by Kels

Cheers for that info on the trim.
Yeah, R/AXLE is GV4
VIN: 8M70RJL445368Z
GVW: 2200
CHZ50574A

Any info you could tell me would be great.

Cheers






Its a hard one to pick. There is a good chance its an XU3 Sandman. How original is it? Does it still have its tyre placard (in HZ Sandmans had a unique placard)? Does it have attachment points at the rear for the full length headlining? Have a look on my website for a photo of the headlining attachment points and placard numbers.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?




Yes, it has the tyre placard in the glove box but i havent a hope of reading it. Im unsure about the attacment points for the full length headlining - A mate seems to think it may but ill have to check on that!! The year on the comp plates is 04/79.


Reply author: Kels
Replied on: 25/09/2007 11:57:20 AM
Message:

Yes, it does have the attachment points at the rear.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/09/2007 12:02:28 PM
Message:

Id say its a very good chance it is a Sandman. It could be a normal van with an optional full length headlining, but Id say its a better chance of being a Sandman than not. Does it have a GTS dash and courtesy switches for the interior light? Twin headlight front?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/09/2007 12:17:26 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

interesting to see the HZs

seems that some of the early ones did have the 1860KG gvw? then went to 1950. then later 2000?



Early HZ XX7 utes are 1860kg (as are HJ/HX utes and HJ/HX 6cyl vans) and changed to 1950kg later.
Early HZ XX7 vans are 1950kg, then changed to 2000kg later, but the changeover point is a bit blurry (early 1978).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Kels
Replied on: 25/09/2007 1:38:06 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Id say its a very good chance it is a Sandman. It could be a normal van with an optional full length headlining, but Id say its a better chance of being a Sandman than not. Does it have a GTS dash and courtesy switches for the interior light? Twin headlight front?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?




It doesnt have the HZ front end with the twin headlights anymore - I think its a HQ front?? (It had a hard life before i took it of a mates hands) Yeah, it has the GTS dash and are you talking the courtesy switches above the doors or interior light inside? i cant say i recall switches on the interior light inside but again, ill have to check on that.

Cheers


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/09/2007 5:52:58 PM
Message:

I mean the switches in the front of the door openings that turn on the interior light when you open the doors. These were standard on Sandman but not on non-Sandman HZ base model.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Kels
Replied on: 25/09/2007 6:20:37 PM
Message:

Thanks, yes i have the switches in the front of the door openings. Does this mean its a Sandman because im still baffled by the trim code? i know you guys said Tan, thank u, but i just cant find anything on it.

Cheers


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/09/2007 7:25:09 PM
Message:

Id put about a 90% probability on it being a Sandman. 67C is indeed an odd trim code, but it may simply be a mistake. Is the trim brown or bone (off-white)? It may be meant to be 67V or 63C. Such mistakes do happen.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 25/09/2007 8:13:26 PM
Message:

i have the factory holden colour & trim selector here for ordering back in the day at the holden dealer , it was issued in october 1978....
its definately not a sandman trim, its the standard straight commercial trim for a hz commercial 8wm60, 8wm70, 8wm80. 67c is listed in here as the only trim available for these base models... which is tan, no other trim combos were available or recommended on these base models & only 5 paint colours availble 1926 flamenco red, 1927 jasmine yellow, 1949 mojave beige, 1930 palais white, 1931 panama green, all available with recommended two tone except for 190 palais white. also something to note though is xy9 neutral headlinging standard.

just to clarify some more ...

kingswood 8wn70 & 8wn80 offered light grey 11c, light blue 23c, sage green 33c, buckskin 63c, dark carmine 77c

now sandman offered only...
light grey 11c, light blue 23c, & buckskin 63c these were the only trims availble for the last of the hz sandmans....

i would say that your adr chassis plate may be from another vehicle, a real sandman, the other 2 plates may be from a commercial vehicle, check with byron? thus making a pretty good faker of a sandman,.....this is definatley possible as they are not factory original rivets on your tags another thing might be to check that the body is actually white originally.

id say close but no cigar....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/09/2007 06:25:45 AM
Message:

Interesting stuff. Any chance of a scan of these pages? It will help to define further the identification of post 10/78 Sandmans. We need to be very careful though in using such data as Holden had a tedency to break their own "rules". Example, I have an 11/78 Acacia XX7 with 63V trim, and a 10/78 Acacia XX7 with 23C trim. This identifies a problem in this area already ie according to Holdens own ordering procedure the 63V XX7 shouldnt exist. All of the other post 10/78 vehicles recorded are as you say, so good find!
Onto the vehicle with the 67C trim code. By the ordering procedure it wont be a Sandman then. But I have found more than a few with Sandman pointers all over the place but something else says its not ie a mistake on the plates. The best example is a plate matching Acacia XX7 HQ with a seating capacity of 3! So if the van has tan trim in it or evidence of it Id say not a Sandman. If the trim or evidence of it is buckskin then Id say the tag is meant to be 63C and its a Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 26/09/2007 07:59:43 AM
Message:

byron not to sure if that sandy is one of mine or not but i also have one with 63V trim, 11/78 acacia ridge built Pano xx7. i also read the above last night and though hmmmm.... thats strange.. its been chopped into a ute so it dont have hood lining. but i just saw the XX7 and thought well it has to be. But maybe its not...... Holden may have made a mistake on putting the XX7 on there? it has the low 2000kg GVW but maybe its just ment to be a XU4, has all the other good gear, v8 floor shift manal, gts dash etc, but the twin headlight front doesnt have the cut outs in it for the gts spoiler vents. but theres a big change that its a diferent front anyhow.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/09/2007 12:12:09 PM
Message:

2000kg is unique to late HZ XX7. All V8 HZ XU4 vans were 1950kg. So yours must be a Sandman, and I think it is yours on the list I was referring to.

On another note, I had a guy contact me today with a 9/74 HQ V8 van. Factory M20, GTS dash and wheel with blank centre cap. Painted in metallic paint, but in HJ Satin Mist. However it has a 39A trim code and is a 3-seater hence not a Sandman. It would appear that by the time Holden started using HJ paint on HQs they had relaxed the "rule" in the ordering procedure that you couldnt get metallic on a Belmont commercial unless it was a Sandman. Id say the original owner of this one wanted a bench seat "Sandman" but couldnt get one so he specced up a Belmont. Probably cost more than an XX7 to buy. Apparantly it has a factory HQ bench with a centre armrest too.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 26/09/2007 12:46:49 PM
Message:

my 3/79 XX7 ute has 1950 GVM
... FYI

A1 Bogan.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/09/2007 6:11:32 PM
Message:

As it should be. I was referring to vans. They seem to have a higher GVW than utes all the way through in XX7 and XU4 for some reason. The XU3 and normal GVW is the same, just the derated ones are lower. From memory early HZ XX7 is the only time they line up as the same at 1950kg.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 29/09/2007 01:55:31 AM
Message:

Is 39A brown or chestnut? The HQ parts catalogue contradicts itself as under trim codes it is listed as brown but for interior trim parts it is listed as chestnut.

I also picked up a HX parts catalogue and it revealed a lot about identifying a Sandman.
To be a Sandman the dash facia must be silver faced. Ambulance packs and the GTS dash option on Belmonts and Kingswoods are plain black facia.
All Sandman reference listings are Belmont only...8WM70 and 8WM80.
No HX Kingswood Sandmans.
18V...slate black...Sandman only
60A...Chamois.......Sandman and Belmont
65A...Sienna........Sandman only
67V...Tan...........Sandman and Belmont

So, the only way to fake a HX Sandman is to find a 2 seat V8 Belmont with a 60A or 67V trim code and fit it up with all the Sandman bits. According to the parts catalogue anyway.

Also, I cannot find any reference to the ambulance pack being available on Kingswood, only 8WM60 and 8WM70 models.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/09/2007 09:10:29 AM
Message:

The BO6 availability is in the HX Features manual (8/76 revision), not the parts catalogue. Ive found that before any assumptions can be made from parts catalogues you need to have ALL revisions of it, or youll make big mistakes. If you read the late HJ catalogue youd state that HJ Kingswood ute Sandmans didnt exist. Also the stripe designations in the various HZ catalogues are all over the place.

Remember also that the base HX Sandman was a 202. So to fake one youd need a base model floor shift 2 seater with full length headlining if a van and at least a 202. Probably the easiest way to do this would be to buy a Kingswood van body and put a 2 seater base model plates and chassis on it. Lots of work when original HX Sandmans are relatively cheap. And bordering on fraud to boot!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 30/09/2007 3:33:59 PM
Message:

byron i will scan these colour & trim ordering procedure pages as soon as i set up my scanner (got to pick it up from work)....

one thing i have been trying to work on is the colour combos/ decals & colour recommendations etc for each model... as there seems to be a lot of uncertainty out there about what decal should go on what paint colour....

here is what i can confirm in hard evidence from the october colour & trim selector pages...

so late hzs only!

here are the decal colour codes:
dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
dy3-yellow / orange / red
dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
dl7- notes: the decal code must be specified - if no decals required "dl7" must be specified!

now there is only 1 recommended decal recommended for each colour...so here they are remember late hz only: ( this part gets interesting because this really can rule out sandmans using the interior trim codes against the paint, byron let me know if you check the register... )

solid exterior colours/ decals/ interior trim
1948 ashley grey dy4 available with 11c light grey trim only
1189 firethorn dy6 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1926 flamenco red dy3 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1927 jasmin yellow dy2 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1949 mojave beige dy1 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1930 palais white dy2 (all 3 trims availble) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
1931 panama green dx5 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1959 tuxedo black dx5 (all 3 trims availble) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin

metallic exterior colours
1934 atlantis blue dx5 available with 23c light blue trim only
1952 aztec silver dx5 (all 3 trims avaiable) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
1953 dark carmine dy6 (2 trims available) 11c light grey, 63c bucksin
1954 malachite dy6 (2 trims availble) 11c light grey, 63c bucksin
1955 mirage blue dx5 (all 3 trims available) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
1956 mistral grey dx6 (2 trims availble) 11c light grey, 63c bucksin
1957 nocturn blue dx5 (all 3 trims available) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
1937 saddle tan dy1 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1958 sage green dy4 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1945 sandal wood dy1 available with 63c buckskin trim only

now to make it easeir for people to check there colour, cross referencing with sandmanowners.com paint codes we have the following conclusion for late hz.....

HZ Sandman 1979

dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
dy3-yellow / orange / red
dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue

Ashley Grey 30857 - 1948 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Atlantis Blue Met. 30525 - 1934 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Aztec Silver Met. 30851 - 1952 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Dark Carmine Met. 30852 - 1953 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Firethorn 10981 - 1189 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Flamenco Red 30517 - 1926 dy3-yellow / orange / red
Jasmine Yellow 30518 - 1927 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Malachite Met. 30853 - 1954 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mirage Blue Met. 30854 - 1955 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Mistral Grey 30855 - 1956 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mojave Beige 30858 - 1949 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Nocturne Blue Met. 30856 - 1957 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Palais White 30521 - 1930 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Panama Green 30522 - 1931 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Saddle Tan Met. 30528 - 1937 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Sage Green Met. 30967 - 1958 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Sandlewood Met. 30583 - 1945 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Tuxedo Black (MK.2) 30861 - 1959 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue

also using this hard evidence brings up some combinations that are apparent for either all hx-hz, probably the most interesting decal here i think is the change to the dy6

im a signmaker/designer so i have been working on a visual way of showing the decals & colour combos ill keep you guys posted.

oh yeah im trying to find more out more for earlier hz & hxs so if you got some info share alike...the main reason behind this is my factory black hx sandman. i presumed it had dx5s (when i bought it it had been sprayed gun metal & had crook signwriters silver decals on it) so i resprayed it black & put the dx5s on as i had a original full set & was lucky enough to get the last set of reprinted dx5s from the south australian van club which are waiting for its "real" respray... but now looking into it i have the original van wheels issue number 1 which come out when the hx was out (has the adds etc & a hx sandman review) there is a shot of the exhibition "movin free" & there is a black sandman in there with dy3s yellow / orange / red which would make a lot more sense considering the 65a sienna interior......


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 01/10/2007 12:10:17 PM
Message:

as i mentioned above heres a peep into what ive been doin...




also what is the decal on the back of this tailgate?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230175859810


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 01/10/2007 5:57:41 PM
Message:

The tailgate decal on ebay looks like HX.. DY2... Orange, light blue, blue.


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 01/10/2007 9:13:01 PM
Message:

hmmm i was thinking a dy6 just really faded....


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 01/10/2007 10:30:33 PM
Message:

sandmanxx7..

1926 flamenco red dy3 available with 63c buckskin trim only

i own a paint 1926 sandy with 63V trim. its a XX7. it was mentioned earlier in this thread.


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 02/10/2007 8:13:23 PM
Message:

hzute...

i dont think it would apply to yours because its a november 78 right? I would strictly only apply this data to post 79 hzs.

i have a hz sandman, im pretty sure its a 78, i dont have photo of the adr plate, but ill check it out this week. ... here is the body id plate its a 63v also.



but there is no difference between 63c & 63v as they are both bucksin vinyl trim, the later of the 2 "v" was used on the new commodore & the "c" was on the vans & utes etc... id say this was the change. & if it had cloth it either had the usual "x" & if it was cord it was usally "t".


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 02/10/2007 9:01:56 PM
Message:

Luv yr work sandmanXX7!

Heres a photo of one of my HZ sandmen....


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 02/10/2007 9:49:08 PM
Message:

doesnt get any better than that in my eyes, looks like original paint, surface rust on the roof, original decals, a couple of repairs hmmm i would find it hard to respray that one i love it how it is ;D

heres my factory black hx sandman


also as i was mentioning above about the 63c stuff, i just checked a pic of my mates 79 firethorn sandman & his is exactly to the trim & colour selector.... 1189 firethorn dy6 available with 63c buckskin trim only


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 02/10/2007 10:12:42 PM
Message:

Very nice!!
I also have a Mistral Grey sandman awaiting restoration.
It has 63C buckskin too..



Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 03/10/2007 12:28:50 AM
Message:

mistral grey, nice combo!




just to confirm the other van, it is Caribbean Turquoise with dX5 - bright blue/blue green/dark blue?


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 03/10/2007 2:36:55 PM
Message:

Gday sandmanXX7
yes the other van is carribean turquise mettalic. And yes the decals which are just holding in there after all these years in the sun are bright blue/blue green/dark blue. I just got a new set from the adelaide sandman club. Theyll look great once i get the funds to respray her.

Thanks for the mistral grey info. It had no stripes when I got it so I always wondered what the colour combo was. Im looking at trading her for a HJ monaro in bendigo but if that doesnt happen Ill keep on with the plan of restoring her to her former glory.
Cheers.


Reply author: Kels
Replied on: 04/10/2007 1:16:27 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Id put about a 90% probability on it being a Sandman. 67C is indeed an odd trim code, but it may simply be a mistake. Is the trim brown or bone (off-white)? It may be meant to be 67V or 63C. Such mistakes do happen.
_________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



The trim was a chocolate brown vinyl. I doubt it to be a Sandman now - wishful thinking i guess!! Cheers for all your help.


Reply author: RdS
Replied on: 04/10/2007 4:56:32 PM
Message:

quote:

i dont think it would apply to yours because its a november 78 right? I would strictly only apply this data to post 79 hzs.

i have a hz sandman, im pretty sure its a 78, i dont have photo of the adr plate, but ill check it out this week. ... here is the body id plate its a 63v also.



but there is no difference between 63c & 63v as they are both bucksin vinyl trim, the later of the 2 "v" was used on the new commodore & the "c" was on the vans & utes etc... id say this was the change. & if it had cloth it either had the usual "x" & if it was cord it was usally "t".




all HZs came with the smaller sheet metal style rivets (like in the pic) yeah?

if so, does anyone know the change-over date? (from the ones that were bigger open ring style)


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/10/2007 6:00:09 PM
Message:

HQ-HJ. HQ are the big ones. HJ small.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 04/10/2007 7:22:34 PM
Message:

hi rds...

please note those rivets of my hz are not original rivets, they have been off that van....

here are some original rivets....



& a bigger one for the discerning eye....


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 04/10/2007 7:25:06 PM
Message:

Hey SandmanXX7,
have you got any sales brochures with HZ in GTS guards?

A1 Bogan.


Reply author: HkDave
Replied on: 04/10/2007 7:37:15 PM
Message:

What is the going price of an ex ambulance? Are they becoming collectable?
Thanks
HkDave


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 04/10/2007 7:48:11 PM
Message:

hey adam, do you mean for sandmans? not for sandmans anyway... that is for all the old guys to talk about (no offence...) but yeah apparently holden were doin all sorts of **** at the end of the run... i had heard of a caprice with gts guards from factory & a hz "gts" panelvan with tartan trim in the seats, gts gaurds & gts pinstripes but hey waaht do you know no photos & no proof..... what next a factory ordered hz sandman panelvan in two tone paint.

oh yeah im a signwriter & this one time about 8 years ago i was painting down at a shopping centre whenn some old retired looking bloke said to me i used to be a signwriter i used to work for holden painting sandman on the tailgates....jesus just when i thought id heard it all, go figure!


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 04/10/2007 7:58:39 PM
Message:

Yeah, for sandman.
Its just that my 3/79 has a genuine set.
the car has been modified.
i am just trying to establish whether any late ones like mine had them, any at all?.
so far, doesnt look like it.

Believe me, i would love to have another spare set of Genuine guards to hang in the shed where STD guards once were,
i just want it 100% correct when it its birthday comes around.

A1 Bogan.


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 04/10/2007 8:24:50 PM
Message:

hi adam, well i have heard it being discussed that you could get holden to do what you wanted &at the end of the runs, if you had the patience also.because most people wanted them to have gts guards & were fitting them to the sandmans afterward the dealers would have been keen to sell it how you wanted it anyway o get the sale.... if you think about it this is what started the sandman in the first place.

If i were you when that birthday comes around dont put gts gaurds on it (pet hate of mine for hx,hz) even if it did come with them.... if you get the chance to check ( involves the gaurd being of the car & the mud gaurd off aswell), most orignal gts guards have the "original factory" paint on the inside deep behind the inner guard/mud gaurd atleast with overspray. i have 4-5 original such guards one being a genuine malachite hz gts, you can prove it by scratching it to the metal if it goes something along the lines of the colour you see, then usally black (primer holden etch) then metal (remember inner of the guard only here) then there is a good chance of it being the original, the only way of faking this is to sand/bead blast this part of the guard which is rarely done as you dont see it although it may get painted over on a rebuild so scratch it back!


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 04/10/2007 8:38:20 PM
Message:

i have done this already, there is evidence of sticker residue over Malachite paint (mine is incidently originally malachite, now Barbados green...)
But it doesnt really solve anything, its had 25 years of repairs over repairs over repair, more than likely.

Then what do i say, "i scratched it, so it must of had GTS.....blah blah"

Unless Malachite was a HZ sandman only colour??

A1 Bogan.


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 04/10/2007 8:48:37 PM
Message:

man i better check that guard of mine (im going off memory here)..... just checked out my 79 trim colour selector there was no malachite for a gts anyway! only flamenco red, palias white, atlantis blue, aztec silver, nocturn blue, sandlewod... so i would imagine 77-78s gtss would have "supermint" as malachite this seemed to have replaced supermint.

i will also check warren & bens book the monaro story just to prvoe the malachite gts thing...


Reply author: Ian
Replied on: 10/10/2007 1:44:16 PM
Message:

Hey guys anyone interested in a xx7 Hq sandman accacia ridge built vehical in yellow chrome 30b interior and confirmed by holdens to be a genuine one ,, Unfortunately i need too sell and would like too see it go too an enthusiast rather than some one thats going to butcher it .. It was factory 308 M21 3.36 ratio in the back end how ever drive line is now gone , has a 327 saginaw in it which i want too keep , needs resto , but too my understanding there was less than 100 of theese vehicals built and i know they are the most valuble off all sandmans .. I wiil not sell this vehical to anyone only the person that will bring it back too its former glory its rusted in the usual places but is definatly very restorable get back too me either through the web here or via mobile im in adelaide and have been offered 20k but i recon is better than that plus they wanted too turn into a drag car and im not keen on that .. mobile no is 0416354404 ,, .. great site by the way!!!!!!!!!!


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 10/10/2007 2:45:26 PM
Message:

Rusted and missing the drive train - mate, Id take the 20k and run!

I reckon something with original chicken or bull stripes would be the most valuable.


Reply author: RdS
Replied on: 10/10/2007 5:35:30 PM
Message:

if youre not bull****ting about that offer; take it.

-----------------------------
4/76 HJ monaroGTS


Reply author: VL05
Replied on: 10/10/2007 6:34:23 PM
Message:

My XX7 built 75 HJ Sandman appears to have only been resprayed once, after that respray the decals were not re-fitted. When removing the guards, there was traces of the decals on both guards on the backside of the guards, the side no exposed. I have photos as well if this helps at all?

--------
WANTED: HJ Sandman parts, PM me!


Reply author: Ian
Replied on: 11/10/2007 11:11:04 AM
Message:

guess ill take that offer !!!! cheers guys


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/10/2007 12:01:15 PM
Message:

Are you going to sell the 327 and Saginaw?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: ian
Replied on: 15/10/2007 05:58:16 AM
Message:

hey byron i could be talked into it , or i was going too put it into my VK calais , but if your interested let me know


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/10/2007 12:07:45 PM
Message:

Send me an email. Youll get it off my website www.monaroparts.com

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: ian
Replied on: 18/10/2007 09:48:36 AM
Message:

hi Byron i am having difficulties getting an email through to you is there an alternative contact ?? if not you can ring me on my mobile number listed on this page in relation to the 327 saginaw for sale ,,, cheers


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 23/10/2007 7:39:14 PM
Message:

Sandman ID required.
The details i have so far are sketchy,
but the following info refers to two HJ utes.

1975 (month?)
Trim 1898 - 19V L32, M20
WM80.
Paint 557-15944 (deaville Blue)

this next one is a bit confusing...
here is an snippet from Bryons site.
"The HJ Sandman is the first to demonstrate a reduction in GVW for the XX7, and also the first to offer the XU3 variant. The Belmont became the HOLDEN. Early parts manuals confirm the existence of HJ Kingswood Sandman utes, but later printed versions removed most of the data. If you look closely at the October 1974 HJ Sandman sales brochure the yellow ute can be identified as a Kingswood by the window surround stainless. The ID plates above are better proof! From the small amount of data collated so far the following GVWs appear to be applicable:"

this one is 10/74, but WN 80, which is a worry..
however cotinille white (568-15951)
and the trim is the same as my 1974 SLR 5000(from memory),.....1888-18V
Plus. L31, M21

cheers,


WN80


A1 Bogan.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 23/10/2007 7:47:00 PM
Message:

sorry, forgot to add that because they are utes, no full head lining to help id RE: WN 80, HJ 1974

A1 Bogan.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/10/2007 9:11:28 PM
Message:

Email the full ID to me. Both could easily be Sandmans. That text has since been updated (tonight).

Sandman and Engine prefix parts of website updated last night. If you are interested have a read and see if it makes sense. The main bit changed are:

Last paragraph of HQ (before "What constitutes.....";
HJ section, including tyre placards;
HX Kingswood Sandman - fact or fiction;
Plus GVWs added throughout the models (were ??? before).



_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hzute
Replied on: 24/10/2007 8:19:35 PM
Message:

nice little update byron. looks the goods.

cheers
jason


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/10/2007 8:59:39 PM
Message:

Can someone please check the EH 149 prefoxes for me on the Engines page?

http://www.monaroparts.com/Engines.htm


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 24/10/2007 9:51:54 PM
Message:

Byron i have a seen a few hj adelaide built vans with the paint code plates punched from the top like the monaros?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 24/10/2007 10:47:09 PM
Message:

heres an example definately a hj adelaide sandman, persian sand had the original guards full hoodling interior etc.... note the no gvw...






Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 25/10/2007 06:39:16 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Can someone please check the EH 149 prefoxes for me on the Engines page?

http://www.monaroparts.com/Engines.htm


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Hi Byron.

I must have read that page on over 20 ocassions & missed that error. You have both the 149D & 149E listed as hi-comp 149s. The 149E is the lo-comp version & the 149D is the hi-comp.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/10/2007 11:59:12 AM
Message:

I knew there was something amiss, but not sure what. Interesting that Holden started out with the base model red 6 as D for high comp and E for low comp, went away from it (with the 161) and came back to it again for LC, HG, HQ, LH, LX and HZ with CD/CE, GD/GE, QD/QE HD/HE, XQD/XQE and ZD/ZE. Probably just co-incidence though since the 130 was A and the 138 B/C.

On that topic, in red motors:

A=130
B=138H
C=138L
D=173H
E=173L
F=173S
L=202H
M=202L
P=202X
R=253H
S=253L
T=308
U=350
V=308L
Z=308L34

I understand why I and O werent used but whats up with G, H, J, K, N, Q, W, X and Y?? Particularly since K and possibly Z was used in 186. Are some of then 4cyl engine prefixes?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/10/2007 12:18:38 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by sandmanxx7

heres an example definately a hj adelaide sandman, persian sand had the original guards full hoodling interior etc.... note the no gvw...




Bugger, I replied to this, this morning but reply is gooooone....Anyway:

The lack of GVW is just another mistake.
The stamped BODY plate is as per all HJ vans, except for Acacia Ridge (Brisbane). Pagewood (Sydney) and Dandenong (Melbourne) didnt construct their own HJ-HZ van bodies (I think Dandenong also used Elizabeth HQ van bodies), but used bodies built at Elizabeth (Adelaide), and hence all run BODY plates like those in the photo as this was how Elizabeth BODY plates looked from HK to mid? HX?. Pagewood and Dandenong assembled vans then got Pagewood and Dandenong VIN and ADR tags and chassis numbers. This is why vans from these 2 x plant have BODY numbers that dont match the PSN (numerical suffix of the VIN). Why Elizabeth BODY numbers and PSNs dont match until mid HX is still a mystery to me.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 25/10/2007 4:40:44 PM
Message:

Hi Byron.

Yes, some are used on 4 cyls.

N = 1.9 Starfire & Commodore 4
Q = Not used for the same reason as O & I
V = 1300 Hi-Comp
W = 1300 Lo-Comp
X = 1760 OHC
Y = Opel 1900

The others are used on later V8s & others
G = VK 304 V7X
H = VN-VS 5.0
J = VL 304
K = VK EFI 6 and!! VN Group A

Many others actually ‘double-up’. A, B, G, C, Z are also VK V8s. W & P are VL V8s. U & E are VN V8s. H is VN to VT V6. M & N are VT V8s. F is Gen 3. A & R are VX/VY V6s. S is VS/VT Supercharged V6. L & P are 5.7 Stroker VR/VS/VT V8.


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 25/10/2007 7:53:53 PM
Message:

byron heres a local brisbane built van for the registar note the 2200 & xx7? pop rivets arent original might be a rebirthed chassis plate?




Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 25/10/2007 8:18:35 PM
Message:

for those that may be interested, turns out my factory black hx sandman (prevoiusly owned by dominic earlier in this thread) had dx5s originally plum/purple/dark blue, im currently restoring it & after taking the gaurds off "hey presto" behind i found the original decals still on the inside of both gaurds... cool im a happy man, & this makes alot more sense with the sienna interior, although i would have preferred the hz dx5s ;D

heres the pics....



also...

adamperth heres that gts gaurd i was talking about, im sure it is malachite i have an original sample here but havent checked it against this gaurd, i dont think it is supermint? the shot is taken on a real sunnyday so it looks alot brighter than usual ( as bright as it ccan be). anyway they didnt make a malachite hz gts so only in supermint. i dont know if any other gts or sandmans had a dark malachite kind of colour in hj etc? anyone help?


Reply author: HQ SAND MAN
Replied on: 28/10/2007 11:59:21 AM
Message:

just a quick question Did the HQ sandman have fluted guards ???


Reply author: HQ SAND MAN
Replied on: 28/10/2007 12:27:56 PM
Message:

Hey can anyone help me ?? I have just found a HQ windowless van and i am a little confused as too what it is i will give you all some numbers and if any one can decifer would be great..... Model ( HQ80270 ) Body (31193 b ) INT { 183921a ) GVW ( 4850 lbs )Seating cap( 2 ) THQ32573B , 8M70T?, Paint 56813890 ,, Here is the strange bit 1/73 build it seems to have all the trade marks of a sand man but build date may suggest otherwise ,, it is in average cond but could be a interesting vehical ,, cheers guys


Reply author: HQ SAND MAN
Replied on: 28/10/2007 12:32:44 PM
Message:

Oops forgot a couple of things L31 M21 GV2 so with all theese numbers if its not a sandman its seems too be optioned up like 1 ( I am confused ) lol


Reply author: HQ SAND MAN
Replied on: 28/10/2007 12:36:12 PM
Message:

some more info built in accacia ridge and original colour is royal purple met


Reply author: sandamn
Replied on: 28/10/2007 7:48:29 PM
Message:

if its a aridge and doesnt have the XX7 than out of luck for being a sandy. i would think.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 28/10/2007 8:27:48 PM
Message:

Sounds a lot like a Sandman, 2 seater, metallic paint, Belmont van. The 1-73 date could possibly be a misprint being the first month of a new year. XX7 on the plate would confirm Sandman but not all AR Sandmans were stamped so that is hardly proof its not a Sandman. Does it have the GTS dash and fluted guards?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 28/10/2007 9:00:20 PM
Message:

sorry to burst your bubble.... but its build date is too early for a sandman, I had a ute like this everything to be a sandman but just built too early.


Reply author: HQ SAND MAN
Replied on: 29/10/2007 1:42:09 PM
Message:

Not sure about dash nothing there is there a code on the plate too say about GTS dash if so what is the number if anyone knows ,, Guards are just a standard HQ guard , but i dont recon that really means a whole heap its probably had a front end hit in its life ,, I have a Q sandman and its got a J front on it ,, is there any other give aways ,, I do understand about the build date it needs too be a 74 ,, just the plates have a lot of similarities too a sandman ,, as far as i can work out the only thing its missing is the XX7 on the plate


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 29/10/2007 3:57:18 PM
Message:

"just the plates have a lot of similarities too a sandman"

what the plates are saying is its a belmont hq panelvan with a 308 & aussie fourspeed on the floor which results in bucket seats eg 2 seater, so the simialrity is that "m" is for belmont & is also the base model for sandmans to be made from. these were quite common in the day....

unless it is a post january 74 its not a sandman.

heres the hq sandman standards..
4-speed manual gear box
Wide hip hugging buckets
Full GTS sports instrumentation
GTS sports wheels
GTS headlamp bezels
GTS sports steering wheel with Sandman emblem
GTS vented front fenders


Reply author: HQ SAND MAN
Replied on: 29/10/2007 7:36:04 PM
Message:

cheers for that ,, i thought it was an interesting car and worth asking the question .... Thanks guys


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/10/2007 8:30:58 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HQ SAND MAN

Hey can anyone help me ?? I have just found a HQ windowless van and i am a little confused as too what it is i will give you all some numbers and if any one can decifer would be great..... Model ( HQ80270 ) Body (31193 b ) INT { 183921a ) GVW ( 4850 lbs )Seating cap( 2 ) THQ32573B , 8M70T?, Paint 56813890 ,, Here is the strange bit 1/73 build it seems to have all the trade marks of a sand man but build date may suggest otherwise ,, it is in average cond but could be a interesting vehical ,, cheers guys



Acacia BODY 31193B is a 3/74 - 4/74 body, but that build date and chassis number (AHQ or BHQ not THQ as typed) are wrong for the body. 31193B would have a chassis number like DHQ58000B. The VIN is for a 308 Belmont van, so the VIN plate probably belongs to the BODY plate, (VIN will be 8M70TDH31193Q) but the ADR plate is off a different van. Possibly a stolen and rebirthed van?
As for the BODY/VIN combo these may be off a Sandman without the XX7 being stamped (ie a mistake). In fact Id be surprised if they werent, BUT its an Acacia HQ van/ute without XX7 so even if it was a 1-owner totally original matching numbered example, without the XX7 it does leave it vulnerable especially without metallic paint.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HQ SAND MAN
Replied on: 30/10/2007 11:21:02 AM
Message:

Hey byron just too let you know its apparent original colour was purple metalic and i probably made a typo with the THQ ,, so it could be a possibility would holdens be able too tell me any more ??


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/10/2007 12:17:38 PM
Message:

Holden wont be able to tell you anything more. Its not metallic either as 568 is solid colour. There is more wrong with the chassis than the T. Read my reply for the approx chassis number it should be.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HQ SAND MAN
Replied on: 30/10/2007 2:24:35 PM
Message:

Thanks for that cheers for your help


Reply author: sandman77
Replied on: 12/11/2007 10:40:29 PM
Message:


Tell us what this one is , My brother in law owns it & A friend might be buying it for 20 k. Just

want to see if it is what it is .

Here gos



HZ Panelvan 03/ 79 2000kg seating cap 2 L 32 M 20 Gv4

HZ8WM70 1926 - 65C

It has A Yellow needle GTS dash & tan colour interier full hoodlining to rear . Van is red in colour with Orange Sandman stripes
twin headlight front no spoiler but it does have the holes & they look original .

It has NORTH CITY P T Y. L T D
HOLDEN stamped under bonnet on R HS underneath

No XX7 on the tags & it has 2 windows cut out of each side 4 total .


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 12/11/2007 10:58:03 PM
Message:

you sure its 65c?


Reply author: sandman77
Replied on: 12/11/2007 11:10:37 PM
Message:

I took pictures with my camera phone at his house they are a bit blurry could be 63C


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 12/11/2007 11:20:53 PM
Message:

yeah 63c buckskin would add it all up to the typical 79 sandman....so if its 63c going by the tag info, id say guarenteed "sandman" by me.

65 is sienna , its like a terracotta pot colour it wouldnt be this.

if its 67c this is the trim "tan" for the belmont base model which is available in flamenco red. not available on sandmans.


Reply author: sandman77
Replied on: 12/11/2007 11:35:59 PM
Message:

Also the tag says 568- 30517


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 13/11/2007 12:23:49 PM
Message:

The trim code isnt the best marker here. The 2000kg GVW is. V8 XU4 HZ vans were all 1950kg. 2000kg is unique to most HZ XX7 vans (except for very early examples).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 15/11/2007 12:37:10 PM
Message:

Seeing as this particular thread seems to turned into sandman forum, can anyone tell me the paint code for the off white inside the back of the panno? Cheers.


Reply author: Chris
Replied on: 15/04/2008 7:13:36 PM
Message:

Hi Byron i have just picked up an Hx sandman panelvan. Have checked everything out as far as codes/options go just not sure if all three id tags are from the one car. these are the numbers from the passenger side. MODEL: HX 8WM70, BODY:203875-A TRIM: 1915-18V PAINT:568-17779 ENG:L32 TRANS:M20 AXLE:GU4 Middle id tag:8M70RFL355000X Drivers side: AHX 05334A, 1950kg, build 08/76, passengers:2 Who would be able to help me find out for sure that the vehicle is genuine? regards, Chris.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/04/2008 7:29:52 PM
Message:

All plates match. Guaranteed HX Sandman by the slate black trim code (18V). Chassis number is a 100 or so lower than id have expected but its not unusual for them to vary a bit. Build month, GVW and seating capacity are OK though.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mint julip
Replied on: 15/04/2008 9:17:18 PM
Message:

Thanks for that Byron. Just signed up to this great site. Good to know that it is likely to be a genuine car. The car has had a respray in the Mint julip colour that the id tags identify it to be, pretty dodgy though. Think it is in enamel. It also has GTS guards. Did any of the HX Sandmans come out with these if the stripe kit was not optioned? How would i know if my vehicle came out with the stripes or not? The interior has been retrimmed i think but has a full headlining and the back of the seats have wood on them. Not sure about the console as it has a square ashtray hole in the back of it. The engine is a 253 with a four blade fixed fan (photos yet to be put on profile), is there any way of telling what the original engine numbers are from the information I have given you? I payed $5000. Do you think that is a reasonable price as it drives but is not registered? Cheers Chris.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/04/2008 11:08:30 AM
Message:

Tell me what the engine number is and ill tell you if its not right.
No HX Sandman had GTS guards. Only HQ-HJ.
I dont think youd be able to tell if it was a DL7 or not, unless you have the build sheet.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mint julip
Replied on: 16/04/2008 7:47:30 PM
Message:

Hi Byron, engine number is ZR103172R. hope this helps you!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/04/2008 7:58:55 PM
Message:

Wrong engine. Thats a late HZ 253. You need about QR80xxxx.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 17/04/2008 08:48:18 AM
Message:

G Day byron , did the hz sandman panel van or standard panel van come out with dual exhaust systems . im trying to get the exhaust system / extractors in position before i put the shell back on the chassis.also byron is there any diagrams available anywhere that you know of, cheers jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/04/2008 12:06:40 PM
Message:

Good question. Ill check out the HZ parts catalogue tonight.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 17/04/2008 12:09:32 PM
Message:

ZR 10XXX is approximately for a FEB 79 HZ

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: Monaro202
Replied on: 18/04/2008 7:03:43 PM
Message:

Where all HQ Sandmans built at Acacia ridge & adelaide, or where some built in melbourne?

HOLDEN The Great Way to Move


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/04/2008 7:16:55 PM
Message:

Dandenong, Elizabeth, Acacia and Pagewood. Although I think HQ Sandman vans from Dandenong had Elizabeth constructed bodies. This is also true for Pagewood vans from HJ onwards, although Pagewood made their own HQ van bodies.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Monaro202
Replied on: 19/04/2008 11:36:23 AM
Message:

t.y. byron

HOLDEN The Great Way to Move


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 19/04/2008 4:04:16 PM
Message:

hey byron, did you get a chance to have alook at the parts catalogue , re exhaust
cheers jam


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/04/2008 08:47:10 AM
Message:

It only appears to reference dual exhaust on sedan and statesman. I cant see any reference to dual exhaust on a commercial.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 20/04/2008 09:02:33 AM
Message:

thanks for your help anyways, oh well just another small matter . the cogs are turning faster , cheers jam


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 01/05/2008 3:02:05 PM
Message:

MORE ID for Bryon:
ADR TAG
12/77
AHZ08933A (has matching chassis rail)
Seat cap 2
GVM 2000 Kg

VIN: 8M70RHL402936Z

Body Tag
HZ8WM70
Body: 402936-A
Trim : 1933-63V
Paint 568-30524 (Valencia Orange)
L32 M20 GV4



He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/05/2008 4:55:29 PM
Message:

Nice find. That is the 2nd 12/77 XX7 van I have recorded. All 11/77 XX7s so far have 1950kg GVW, and all 1/78 are 2000kg. The other 12/77 XX7 van recorded is a Brisbane build and it has 1950kg GVW. So somewhere between it and yours they changed to 2000kg. Hopefully they are close on the fiche in date so that will give me a date estimate of the change.
Also XX7 HZ utes changed from 1860kg to 1950kg somewmere between AHZ07590A and AHZ9020A, and your van is in this range so Id say it happened at the same time. Incidently the ute with the chassis number AHZ9020A is a near identical build configuration to your van.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 01/05/2008 5:02:11 PM
Message:

its a WA van.
i may buy it if the price is right..

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/05/2008 5:23:01 PM
Message:

Its much rarer than a 308 HZ Sandman but wont ever be as valuable. Good van to restore to original but stick an EFI 5litre in it.
I was looking further into the records after I wrote the last post, and I also realised that I have heaps of Elizabeth HZ vans from 9/77 right through to 5/79 or thereabouts. BUT, I only have 10/77 and 11/77 Pagewood and Dandenong examples, and Acacia examples (of which I also have heaps) dont start until 12/77.
12/77 is also where chassis numbers change from AHZ to BHZ. So Im starting to wonder if the 4 x following phenomena all line up for a reason at the same time in 12/77?

ADR change (ie AHZ to BHZ);
GVW change;
Pagewood and Dandenong stop Sandman production;
Acacia starts Sandman production.

Anyone shed any more light on this?



_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 01/05/2008 6:55:26 PM
Message:

Byron and Adam ..check emails for photos..via yahoo sent to Byron thru .......holden @......any thoughts?..jim


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 01/05/2008 8:25:10 PM
Message:

yeah i think the valencia orange is the "pinnacle" sandman when it comes to resale & value. this is the colour most people resemble & relate as the "sandman". if the body is good get it, you wont have nay probs moving it in the future.

byron what do you mean by 4x phenomenon?


Reply author: Schapelle Corby
Replied on: 01/05/2008 8:30:52 PM
Message:

I cant believe people are paying so much for a plumbers van with some stickers on it.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/05/2008 8:37:43 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by sandmanxx7

yeah i think the valencia orange is the "pinnacle" sandman when it comes to resale & value. this is the colour most people resemble & relate as the "sandman". if the body is good get it, you wont have nay probs moving it in the future.

byron what do you mean by 4x phenomenon?



The 4 x things I listed.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 01/05/2008 9:00:06 PM
Message:

another dickhead anonymous poster, go back into the ford forums loser!


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 01/05/2008 9:05:41 PM
Message:

byron, i wrecked a hz van about 2 years which i still have the chassis plate somewhere. funny thing was it was a 2000gvw 8wm70 commercial with a 202 on the compliance, it was a standard commercial but the tags looked like sandman except the engine & trans?. ill check what date it is.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/05/2008 10:40:07 PM
Message:

Hmmm. All HZ XX7 were V8s and 2000kg is unique to HZ XX7. Must be a mistake.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 02/05/2008 3:40:45 PM
Message:

bryon, what is the difference between XU3, XU4 and XX7,
was it just cwt of tyre when it left the factory and hence different GVM?

were brisbane XU3s stamped XU3 like the XX7?

too add a bit on the AHX to BHX chassis prefix, some of the WBs start with C, i.e CWBxxx
adam.

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/05/2008 4:53:57 PM
Message:

XU3 is a commerical tyre Sandman with 14.5cwt load capacity, XX7 is a sedan tyre Sandman with 10cwt load capacity and XU4 is a sedan tyred non Sandman ute/van with 10cwt load capacity. Difference is in the GVW.

HQs have A, B, C, D and EHQ prefixes. The letters stand for subsequent ADR revisions on the model.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 02/05/2008 4:56:01 PM
Message:

were any brissy cars stamped XU3 like the XX7?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/05/2008 5:22:50 PM
Message:

Yes. I only have a few recorded though.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 05/05/2008 11:36:15 AM
Message:


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/05/2008 3:28:21 PM
Message:

Do you have a chassis number for that XU3? Itll be somewhere close to AHX0373xB

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 05/05/2008 5:57:14 PM
Message:

No sorry, just a picture of the plate.


Reply author: chrome yella
Replied on: 08/05/2008 5:51:56 PM
Message:

could you please check these ids for me as it will determine if i rebuild or forget it thank you 5/74 gvm4850 2st ehq610--b 8m70tdh3145--b hq80270 1879 30b 567 15821 l31 m21 gv2 hq holden panelvan


Reply author: AGR071
Replied on: 08/05/2008 8:02:55 PM
Message:

If the paint code (30526) is for Carribean Turquise and Trim code (1935) is the same,where abouts will the Carribean colour be in the van?
Also how do i find out what the original colour carpet should be (1935-63V?

Thanks in advance


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 08/05/2008 8:26:05 PM
Message:

chrome yella , very good chance its a sandman , does it have full hoodlining? vents on the side gts dash etc?

agr071 , 1935 is holdens paint number etc to identify the colour the paint colour numbers are then the dulon acrylic paint codes for mixing the paint, it has nothing to do with trim or interior. 63v is buckskin so your carpet should be a light brown/dark cream colour.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 08/05/2008 8:44:24 PM
Message:

HQ Sandman .... full headlining???????

Being a HQ with Aquamarine metallic paint 1879 pretty much assures it of being a Sandman .... being Brisbane built it should have XX7 stamped on the plate?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 08/05/2008 8:52:55 PM
Message:

well SOOORRRYY absynth i stand corrected. ??????


Reply author: chrome yella
Replied on: 08/05/2008 9:28:57 PM
Message:

whoops i forgot to mention there is no xx7 or anything on right top of tag. also the van has a gts dash with a 200kph speedo and gts guards. the van is totally dismantled and the shell is stuffed,some clown tried to make a one tonner out of it. oh yeah theres no glovebox sticker either,the original engine is still standard bore. all tags and engine nos have been verified matching by gmh. but is it a rare sandman or not. please help. gary


Reply author: jam
Replied on: 12/05/2008 12:07:09 PM
Message:

G Day, as was posted previously, does any 1 know the colour the paint is inside the back of a panel van. looks something like a off white ? cheers jam


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 15/05/2008 7:42:04 PM
Message:

has anyone got a pic of 1979 HZ firethorn Red?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 15/05/2008 8:51:39 PM
Message:

http://gallery.oldholden.com/Mr_Jones/paint+colours/HZ/HZ+Prem+Firethorn+Red.jpg.html
not a Sandy but its all I have
Leroy


Reply author: sandman77
Replied on: 15/05/2008 10:16:08 PM
Message:

Still nice leroy

Did you see the valencia orange sandman PV , looks mint

Rusty


Reply author: Brad
Replied on: 17/05/2008 6:29:37 PM
Message:

A friend of mine has acquired a 7/74 HQ Sandman Ute with matching numbered engine. I am trying to find out as much info about it so it can be restored to exacting standard specs.

From what i can determine its a V8 Kingswood ute that has been optioned to a Sandman.

ID plate details below:
Model: HQ80480 XX7
Body: 3*****B
Trim: 186-639E
Paint: 567-15333
L31, M21, GV2

VIN plate details:
8N80TDH3*****Q

Glovebox tyre placard:
9930173ND

Can anyone shed any light on the trim style/colour?

Its currently a faded grey colour, the code lists it as being Gunmetal Metallic. So i believe its still the original paintwork.

Regards,

Brad.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 18/05/2008 07:21:12 AM
Message:

Hi Brad.

The TRIM number should probably read 1866-39E, which is Gunmetal Metallic with Chestnut vinyl trim.

Dr Terry


Reply author: Brad
Replied on: 18/05/2008 09:11:36 AM
Message:

Yes, sorry your correct. 1866-39E. What does chestnut vinyl look like? Just so we can compare to whats already in the ute. This thing seems to be entirely original.

From what i have read the HQ Sandman utes seem to be a rare thing? However this one is an optioned up Kingswood ute not a Belmont? Not sure if that makes it any rarer?

Thanks.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 18/05/2008 11:25:28 AM
Message:

The XX7 on the id plates makes it a defernent sandman Unless it was a error. but sounds like there is nothing to proove it not being a sandman. yes the hq sandman utes are rare. You want to sell it? lol

cheers
jason


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 18/05/2008 11:37:47 AM
Message:

heres a kingswood in 39E has bench instead of buckets but the colours right
http://gallery.oldholden.com/Mr_Jones/Assorted/HQ+Kinga+39E.JPG.html


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/05/2008 11:48:53 AM
Message:

Brad

Got your email, but just as easy to reply here. From my records so far all Sandman utes pre 1976 model are Kingswoods, and yours definitely is a Sandman. What month/year is yours? It would be good to get the BODY and chassis numbers for my Sandman register.

Byron

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Brad
Replied on: 18/05/2008 12:17:22 PM
Message:

Not for sale, Ive got no doubt it is a Sandman.Its also coded to have Metallic Paint. However it dosnt have a derated GVW, its still 4850 (2200kg). Its still got all its original looking decals also, including the smaller Series 1 "Sandman" decals.


Reply author: Brad
Replied on: 18/05/2008 12:21:01 PM
Message:

Hi Byron, (sorry for the double post guys)

Its a 7/74. I can email the Body number if you like?

Brad


Reply author: rob
Replied on: 18/05/2008 2:17:39 PM
Message:

more id info for byron
5/74 ehq62374b
GVW-4850 SEATING 2
8M70TDH316836Q XX7
MODEL-HQ80270
BODY-316836B
TRIM-188239B
PAINT-56715824
ENG-L31
TRANS-M21
AXL-GV2
COULD ANYONE TELL ME IF THIS IS AN ORIGINAL HQ SANDMAN THANKS

HQ80270


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/05/2008 2:34:06 PM
Message:

Yes definitely is.

Brad, yes please email. Pre 1976 model XX7s had no derating.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: chrome yella
Replied on: 18/05/2008 4:26:57 PM
Message:

g,day Byron and dr,Terry just wondering if you could check the details of my hq van on page 37/38 and see what you think, as i dont want to spend money on it if i c,ant say its a geniune sandman. apparently some brisbane hq,s didnt get xx7 stampings. i hope so. also on the id tag it says 5/74 but gmh records say prod date 9.10.74 whats the story here. thanks fellas look forward to your replys. gary


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/05/2008 5:39:13 PM
Message:

By all accounts it should be a Sandman, but the GMH records must be wrong as yours fits in amongst others fine as a 5/74. Interestingly it fits right in with 3 x others that are all ostensibly Brisbane Sandmans that dont have XX7 on the BODY plate? Go figure. Regardless, being an Acacia Ridge build without XX7 will always make it hard to sell as a Sandman so it will never command top dollar.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 18/05/2008 11:27:50 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Brad

From my records so far all Sandman utes pre 1976 model are Kingswoods

Byron

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Hi Byron, this HQ Sandman ute recently on Ebay is a Belmont ute. You may want the details for your records.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190214689595&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/05/2008 07:44:03 AM
Message:

It certainly looks like an original Sandman, and its very original looking. But if it is a Sandman its the first Belmont based Sandman ute ive recorded or seen that is pre 1976 model. Ill record it as a possible as it does bother me a bit that its not a Kingswood.
It is also the first Dandenong HQ Sandman ute I have recorded, and interestingly enough the next 4 Sandmans I have recorded (in sequence) from Dandenong are HJ Kingswood Sandman utes, the first being only 3321 away in PSN which is pretty close (it is very early HJ, that HQ is very late HQ - both are 9/74). Of 16 Dandenong HJ Sandmans recorded, 7 are Kingswood utes.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 20/05/2008 01:29:59 AM
Message:



I have this HJ Sandman ute recorded as a 5-75 build date.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/05/2008 07:31:10 AM
Message:

Excellent. Another one. Do you have more data on it?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 23/05/2008 11:55:41 AM
Message:

Bryon, i emailed you the pics of the tags of this one.

2/77 HX van
1950 GVM
2 seater
AHX 92813S ? (matching rail)

HX8WM70 XX7
Body :411782B
Trim : 1886-18V
Paint: 568 15949 Absinth - how nice is absinth!

L31, M21, GV4

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/05/2008 12:46:39 PM
Message:

I think its a bodgy. I place a HX with BODY number 411782B in April 1977. The ADR plate is a 2/77. There is nothing suss about either the BODY plate or the ADR plate as they both look like Sandman plates, but my records show 2/77 Pagewood HXs with chassis numbers around AHX23xxxS. The chassis number looks a bit strange too, but that might just be the photo. I wonder if the body matches the ADR plate or if the BODY plate belongs to the body? Ive never seen a Pagewood ADR tag on an Acacia van body before either, although I believe Acacia assembled bodies for other plants - Warren??
This all looks wierd???

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 23/05/2008 1:18:44 PM
Message:

the rail matched the ADR tag.
i am not 100% sure of those numbers on the rail, i took photos in the dark.
But at the time, they did match..(the rail and ADR #)
it could possible be AHX228xx
if i run into the guy again, i will get the numbers written down.
The photo of the vin showed nothing, but it was a "WM70.. T" i remember...
so that matches L31


He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 23/05/2008 2:49:33 PM
Message:

Bryon, what is the number of sandmans that you have listed in total?
roughtly?
i phoned the guy with the HX XX7 Absinth, he is going to get back to me with the correct chassis number.

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 23/05/2008 9:48:00 PM
Message:

Byron, that HJ ute was on Ebay about 12 mths ago and I just saved the pic of the plate and its build date for reference.

Adam, as Byron has said those numbers seem suspect. Below are the plates for my Absinth Yellow HX Sandman. 3-77 built with chassis AHX 261**S, Body 227***-A. I have never seen a Brisbane built body on anything but a Brisbane built car, I would like to see a pic of the plates.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 25/05/2008 4:03:49 PM
Message:

sure, i can email them to you, perhaps you can post them up?
adamcurtayne@yahoo.com.au


He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 26/05/2008 2:30:55 PM
Message:

got a TX massage ffrom the owner of the Absinth HX XX7 van
He thinks chassis is either AHX 093133 or AHX 083133
i hope this helps...

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/05/2008 4:13:03 PM
Message:

It would have to be AHX08313B. I cant see it properly in either the photo of the ADR plate or the chassis number.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 26/05/2008 5:12:08 PM
Message:

Does that make it less suss?
looks like AHX08313B

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/05/2008 5:16:48 PM
Message:

Much less. But the chassis number itself still looks wierd.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 26/05/2008 5:19:42 PM
Message:

Bryon hows your database going? approx how many vehicles do you have on file?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/05/2008 6:09:37 PM
Message:

Will count when I get a chance.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: FastEHHolden
Replied on: 29/05/2008 4:31:31 PM
Message:

There is a HX ute on ebay..the owner claims its a sandman and sites www.sandmanowners.com/sandmaninfo-identification.htm as having the info to say it is one...even though his ute is a 3 speed and has the wrong trim code.


Reply author: FastEHHolden
Replied on: 29/05/2008 4:32:32 PM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HX-Sandman-Ute-1976_W0QQitemZ110255983024QQihZ001QQcategoryZ2030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/05/2008 5:45:44 PM
Message:

Ive already told him its not.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t =dog
Replied on: 01/06/2008 10:22:51 PM
Message:

hi
im looking to buy this panno
model HJ8WM70
body 192851A
trim 1899-60A
paint 567-15945

eng L32 trans M2O axle GU4

8M70RFJS24679J

5/76 GVW 1950 seat cap 2

bod BHJ16128M
chassis DHJ90630S
CURRENT ENG NUMBER 11T351528
black gts dash sandman logo steering wheel not original glove box door 9942959
double headlight front window less

could this be a factory sandman?

all help greatly appreciated

T-Dog


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/06/2008 07:19:57 AM
Message:

There is a good chance it is, but it has had a chassis replacement at some stage. The current engine is a 308 which is also not original. Ill have a better look tonight. It is a pretty late HJ too.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/06/2008 5:06:41 PM
Message:

Nothing more to add. Tyre placard isnt original if its a Sandman or originally from a van for that matter. Twin front is not original for Sandman either but a BO6 (ambulance pack) did have a twin front. Does it have full length headlining and interior light switches on the doors?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t =dog
Replied on: 02/06/2008 9:29:51 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Nothing more to add. Tyre placard isnt original if its a Sandman or originally from a van for that matter. Twin front is not original for Sandman either but a BO6 (ambulance pack) did have a twin front. Does it have full length headlining and interior light switches on the doors?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: T-DOG
Replied on: 02/06/2008 9:38:57 PM
Message:

HI BYRON
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP
yes the van has the rear hoodlining clips
and the courtesy light switches for the doors
also gts guards


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 03/06/2008 12:37:14 AM
Message:

Bryon, were the B06 vans headlight wiring different to normal twin headlight?
i.e. to flash with siren on?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 03/06/2008 07:45:25 AM
Message:

Mine wasnt. They werent ambulances. They were an ambulance pack. Like the VK police cars.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 03/06/2008 08:52:24 AM
Message:

Hi Guys.

As Byron said they were ambulance packs, not ambulances.

Any special or extra wiring would be added as required by the guys that did the conversion to make it into an ambulance.

The twin headlight wiring is just stock Premier.

I own an HZ ambulance pack (One-tonner) & it has the stock Premier headlight wiring, including the relay that the HZ has for high beam.

Dr Terry


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 03/06/2008 12:58:47 PM
Message:

dr terry. mate is there any chance you can send me a pic of how the stock standard twin headlight on a hz looks? im interested in seeing the relay, the fuse behind the booster and also the plugs on the headlight globes.

cheers
jason


Reply author: optis000
Replied on: 03/06/2008 10:17:07 PM
Message:

to byron rich do you have any history on one pano
build 12/1976
model HX8WM70
VIN AHX20580A
ENG QT958377
ID TAG 8M70TGL370089X
BODY 221357-A
TRIM 1916-67V
PAINT 568 17777
ENG L31
TRANS M41
AXLE GU4
I DO HAVE FIRST ORIGINAL REGO SLIP FROM NOEL GOULD HOLDEN AND FULL HISTORY AND WAS A ONE OWNER UNTIL RECENTLY I THOUGHT YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THIS VAN AND KNOW IF ITS A GENUINE SANDMAN FOR SURE AS I BELEVE IT IS IT HAS THE FULL HEAD LIGHNING INT LIGHT SWITCHES AND FACT AIR AND FULL CAMPER FOR REAR CAN YOU CONFIRM ANY OF THIS CARS HISTORY AT ALL ? CHEERS OPTIS000


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 03/06/2008 10:47:26 PM
Message:

Optis its definately not the original engine should be in the range QT820xxx to QT850xxx. Sounds a very nice van Papaya and a tail tent. Do you have the tyre placard might help with confirmation.
Leroy


Reply author: optis000
Replied on: 03/06/2008 11:21:57 PM
Message:

i have the original rego papers from new showing the correct engine no 100% with cash register print at bottem and the tyre placard is in the glove box i think it said 9942827 on bottem corner


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 04/06/2008 12:30:59 AM
Message:

Perhaps someone misread the number right from the start and put a 9 instead of an 8, its not that far out of the range then.
Leroy


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/06/2008 07:52:48 AM
Message:

Whats its GVW? If that tyre placard is original its not from an XX7 so if it is a Sandman it would be an XU3 (2200kg). Almost impossible to detect from an optioned up base model. If the original sales documentation doesnt say Sandman it may not be. Engine number cant be original, but ill check it out for you. I didnt have it recorded but I have now recorded it as a possible. Auto Sandmans are pretty rare. Is it a T-bar or a column shift? Is there any evidence of it being a column shift? Bench or buckets (ie seating capacity 2 or 3)?

quote:
Originally posted by optis000

to byron rich do you have any history on one pano
build 12/1976
model HX8WM70
VIN AHX20580A
ENG QT958377
ID TAG 8M70TGL370089X
BODY 221357-A
TRIM 1916-67V
PAINT 568 17777
ENG L31
TRANS M41
AXLE GU4
I DO HAVE FIRST ORIGINAL REGO SLIP FROM NOEL GOULD HOLDEN AND FULL HISTORY AND WAS A ONE OWNER UNTIL RECENTLY I THOUGHT YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THIS VAN AND KNOW IF ITS A GENUINE SANDMAN FOR SURE AS I BELEVE IT IS IT HAS THE FULL HEAD LIGHNING INT LIGHT SWITCHES AND FACT AIR AND FULL CAMPER FOR REAR CAN YOU CONFIRM ANY OF THIS CARS HISTORY AT ALL ? CHEERS OPTIS000



_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 04/06/2008 08:05:01 AM
Message:

seat cap also?

as byron said. i wouldnt be putting money on it either way if it has 2200kg gvw.....


Reply author: optis000
Replied on: 04/06/2008 09:50:23 AM
Message:

HI THE PLATE IS GVW 2200 SEATING 2 AND ALWAYS BEEN T/BAR AUTO TIMBER BACK SEATS THE CAR WAS PURCHASED FROM NOEL GOULD HOLDEN P/L IN 1978 AND WAS APARENTLY IN THERE SHOW ROOM AS A DEMO ALL OPTIONED UP WITH BUBBLE WINDOWS AND CURTAINS MATTRESS AND CARPET ALL STILL ORIGINAL THE OWNER PURDHASED IT DIRECT FROM THEM IN 1978 AND THE ORIGINAL REG PAPERS SHOW FIRST TIME REGISTERED IN 78 WHEN HE PURCHASED IT HE WAS A VERY NICE MAN AND WAS HIS PRIDE AND JOY AND DONT BELEEVE AT HIS OLD AGE WOULD MAKE UP THIS STORY AS IT IS ALL DOCUMENTED AND HAVE OLD PHOTOS SHOWING HIM TOWING HIS SPEED BOAT TO BONNY DOON THE REG NO IS STILL THE ORIGINAL ALSO FROM FIRST REG AFY176 WOULD BE HAPPY TO POST SOME PHOTOS BUT DONT KNOW HOW ON THIS SITE


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/06/2008 10:06:17 AM
Message:

Van is recorded as being allocated to Engineering. It was a fully loaded van ie 308, TH400, A/C, Power steering. Original engine number isnt recorded, but it would have been QT822xxx. Sale date of 1978 lines up with the engine number of QT958377, so the engine must have been changed before it was sold.
Being an auto 2200kg 308 van with air and steer my guess is it was a BO6 ambulance pack. Does it have a dual headlight front in the old photos? Did it have Sandman stripes?
Can you send me a scan of the original log book showing the sale date and engine number, dealer etc?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 04/06/2008 10:55:24 AM
Message:

hi byron
the jade green panno 8M70RFJ524679J YOU REPLIED TO ME ABOUT A FEW DAYS AGO has interior light switches in the doors and full original roof lining clips above tailgate YOU SAID IT MAY HAVE THE AMBO PACK
DOES IT LOOK TO BE A genuine sandman? regards t-dog

ooowwww yeh!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/06/2008 12:02:42 PM
Message:

If it is an ambulance pack it isnt a Sandman. It is impossible to tell for sure with that one. Id guess it is more likely to be a Sandman than not. If the twin front is original it wont be a Sandman. If it is an Ambulance pack then its an XU4 BO6.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rosenberg
Replied on: 04/06/2008 9:52:32 PM
Message:

My HX sandman p van, XX7. original engine number was, QT 812445
Chassis number AHX 06491 B
VIN H407293
Trim 18
Colour no 1915
Model name 8WM70
I will have to find the month. but i know it was 1976. date of acutision 10/2/1977 from ZUPPS.
So i do not know about the QT822XXX is the start of the HX.


Reply author: sandman jade green
Replied on: 04/06/2008 9:53:32 PM
Message:

thanks
have since found out panno was crashed years ago and double headlight front and drivers side gts guard came from a lime green hj-hz to replace the damaged parts as well as the replacement chassis
t=dog


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 05/06/2008 12:46:00 AM
Message:

Rosenburg the engine number was not the start of HX production it was for a 12/76 HX. QT812445 would be from a 11/76 car I have 2 numbers either side of it as Nov cars QT806xxx and QT816xxx HX engine numbers start around Qx75xxxx


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/06/2008 07:29:18 AM
Message:

Have done some more research. Noel Gould was a dealer used to dispose of GMH experimental and test vehicles, which the Papaya van was based upon its cowl and the fact it went to Engineering. See if you can find photos of the 1977 Melbourne motor show - the van may have been there. The HZ series 308 would have been installed at the factory and then it would have gone to Noel Gould. Does anyone recal seeing old photos of any GMH promotion in 1977 of a Papaya (orange) HX Sandman with Premier front and bubble windows?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 05/06/2008 7:33:42 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Its much rarer than a 308 HZ Sandman but wont ever be as valuable. Good van to restore to original but stick an EFI 5litre in it.
I was looking further into the records after I wrote the last post, and I also realised that I have heaps of Elizabeth HZ vans from 9/77 right through to 5/79 or thereabouts. BUT, I only have 10/77 and 11/77 Pagewood and Dandenong examples, and Acacia examples (of which I also have heaps) dont start until 12/77.
12/77 is also where chassis numbers change from AHZ to BHZ. So Im starting to wonder if the 4 x following phenomena all line up for a reason at the same time in 12/77?

ADR change (ie AHZ to BHZ);
GVW change;
Pagewood and Dandenong stop Sandman production;
Acacia starts Sandman production.

Anyone shed any more light on this?


I guess you answered you own question with regard to ADR change
AHZ to BHZ, withwhat you have written... next


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 05/06/2008 7:36:51 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Nice find. That is the 2nd 12/77 XX7 van I have recorded. All 11/77 XX7s so far have 1950kg GVW, and all 1/78 are 2000kg. The other 12/77 XX7 van recorded is a Brisbane build and it has 1950kg GVW. So somewhere between it and yours they changed to 2000kg. Hopefully they are close on the fiche in date so that will give me a date estimate of the change.
Also XX7 HZ utes changed from 1860kg to 1950kg somewmere between AHZ07590A and AHZ9020A, and your van is in this range so Id say it happened at the same time. Incidently the ute with the chassis number AHZ9020A is a near identical build configuration to your van.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



the second paragraph of this....
Do both AHZ07590A and AHZ9020A share the same GVM?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: optis000
Replied on: 05/06/2008 9:12:42 PM
Message:

hi byron rich i have had a go at google but no luck do you have any ideas where to next for some arcived stuff for the motor show ?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/06/2008 9:21:41 PM
Message:

The earlier is 1860kg and the later is 1950kg. Both are V8.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mandy
Replied on: 06/06/2008 10:33:40 AM
Message:

Does anyone know what is going on with the sandmanowners club? Seems that the website hasnt been updated for a long time and I dont seem to get any responses from the email in relation to becoming a member. Anybody else had any luck or know what the go is?

Yes its my Sandman, No you cant drive it!


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 06/06/2008 11:01:38 AM
Message:

i spoke the the owner of the site a while back. as o think he was going overseas or somthing from memory. they where planning a big upgarade og the site because they where asking me about tyre placards.

Not to sure if he is back from over the sea or not....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 06/06/2008 3:51:08 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by adam PERTH

Bryon hows your database going? approx how many vehicles do you have on file?

He who hesitates, -**********s.



61 x Acacia Ridge;
23 x Pagewood;
36 x Dandenong plus the 2 x Ewets (350 TH400 HQ Kingswood utes); and
66 x Elizabeth.

Plus heaps of XU4s and V8 Kingswoods thrown in to fill in the blanks ie spaces where I have big gaps in bewteen Sandmans.


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 07/06/2008 10:52:51 AM
Message:

hi
ol mate has this windowless hz van in his garage

MODEL HZ8WN70
BODY 441894A
TRIM 1934-63C
PAINT 567-30525

ENG L32 TRANS M20 AXLE GV4

03/79 CHZ47541A (MATCHING CHASSIS)
CVW 2200KG SEATING 2

8N70RJL441894Z

TYRE PLACARD UNKNOWN
VAN HAS ORIGINAL

FULL HEADLINING CLIPS AT REAR
COURTESY LIGHT SWITCHES IN DOOR WELL
GTS DASH

OWNER HAS HAD VAN FOR OVER 20YEARS
TRANSPORTED FROM DOWN SOUTH TO QLD BY TRAIN

COULD THIS BE A RARE KINGSWOOD PLATED SANDMAN??
ANY HELP APPRECIATED


ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/06/2008 11:29:45 AM
Message:

Definitely not. All HZ Sandmans were base models.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam perth
Replied on: 07/06/2008 2:32:21 PM
Message:

therefore:
AHZ to BHZ (ADR change) does not marry up with the change of GVM.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 07/06/2008 6:24:02 PM
Message:

byron out of interest how many of the hz sandmans have 63 trim code...?


Reply author: chrome yella
Replied on: 07/06/2008 10:03:55 PM
Message:

hey Byron, just wondering about the 4 or 5 brisbane built hq vans with out xx7 on tags. were they all 308, m21, gv2 with mettalic paint and black int, gts 200kph speedos. also are they counted in your list.or are they discarded as an optioned up belmont. keep up the good work as its great to see how many are left. i have decided to shelve my rebuild for a few years and try to collect missing parts and gain more info. cheers gary.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/06/2008 10:29:49 PM
Message:

19 with 63V and 5 with 63C.

All of those Brisbane examples are 30B trim, mixture of 308 and 253 4 speeds and 1 x 202 M22. All of the 308s are GV2. All are metallic except for the 202 example, and all are vans except for one ute.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 08/06/2008 09:56:19 AM
Message:

so 24 hzs with 63 trim. how many hzs? reason i ask is a while back someone was trying to tell me something like all hz sandmans had 63 trim. or maybe he was saying that all belmonts that where 63 trim are sandmans. no belmont came with 63 trim if it wasnt a sandman? head anything like this?

will have to try and dig up the email......


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/06/2008 5:36:01 PM
Message:

According to the HZ parts catalogue 63V and 63C were available on Base model as well as Kingswood and Sandman. Will check out further.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: optis000
Replied on: 08/06/2008 11:44:16 PM
Message:

Hi byron did you get my photos of papaya panel van i emailed to you and if so what do you think ?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 15/06/2008 7:41:16 PM
Message:

a HZ sandman ute was advertised in the paper in perth this week.

i went and checked it out.
piece of crap, apart from 350 T350.

its tags read:
ADR
HJ Panel Van
9/75, 2200, 2 seater
BHJ35878A

VIN:
8M70TFL322985J

Body Tag:
HJ8WM70
Body: 166540-A
Trim: 1886 - 19V
Paint 568-15949 (ABsinth)
L31 M21 GU4

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/06/2008 7:56:06 PM
Message:

308 M21 with 3.08 is pretty uncommon. Only a handful of the 308 M21 examples recorded have 3.08, most are 3.36. 3.08 is common with 253 M20 and V8 auto though. Itd be pretty slow off the mark.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/06/2008 7:59:11 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by optis000

Hi byron did you get my photos of papaya panel van i emailed to you and if so what do you think ?



Just found this post. Yes I did get them. Looks a lot like a Sandman, and given it was a GMH test vehicle it may have been used in a motor show exhibit. See if you can get photos of the 1977 Melbourne motor show - it may be there.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 15/06/2008 7:59:59 PM
Message:

there seem to be alot of 9/75 sandmans around.
Perhaps holden made a decision to build a heap around this time to target the summer of 75-76.?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 16/06/2008 7:34:42 PM
Message:

Bryon, can i lay claim to owning the last sandman ute produced?
Brisbane body number 4814xxB 3 / 79?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 16/06/2008 7:38:56 PM
Message:

Bryon, can i lay claim to owning the last sandman ute produced?
Brisbane body number 4814xxB 3 / 79?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 16/06/2008 7:41:29 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

19 with 63V and 5 with 63C.

All of those Brisbane examples are 30B trim, mixture of 308 and 253 4 speeds and 1 x 202 M22. All of the 308s are GV2. All are metallic except for the 202 example, and all are vans except for one ute.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



My Brisbane ute is 11C trim..

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 16/06/2008 8:11:53 PM
Message:

Just spoke to a bloke with a very nice rare sandman PV thought you maybe interest byron.

model HZ 70M yada yada
body 413949-A
trim 1930-63V (another 63 trim)
568 30521
l31 m41 gv4 (308 t400 very very nice!)
seat 2
2200kg
gts dash, gts steering wheel, full headlining rear strip, no gts front spoiler. i forgot to ask if it had the cutouts in the bottom of the nosecone.

he is going to email you i think but is your email working again? I will send you his just incase he is very keen to have a chat to you i think.

i will message his email addy to you.

cheers
jason


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/06/2008 9:21:19 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by adam PERTH

Bryon, can i lay claim to owning the last sandman ute produced?
Brisbane body number 4814xxB 3 / 79?

He who hesitates, -**********s.



Its the last I have recorded.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 17/06/2008 10:28:36 PM
Message:

for those that missed it a factory black hx sandman panelvan just went down on ebay as a roller with a motor for $4200. funnily enough i think i might know the person that bought this car from new considering they had ordered a factory black sandman windowless 253 with a 4 speed & no decals! but when it rocked up it at holden it had windows & the decals, so they got the hair dryer out and off they came.... he also said the paint job was very dissapointing & it had chamois trim what are the chances? its a wa build....

heres the info...

Build date 10/76

GVW 1950kg

Chassis number AHX02952M

VIN 8M70RGJ545713X

Model HX8WM70

Body number 212079-A

Trim 2214-60A

Paint 568-15991

Eng L32

Trans M20

Axel GV7

Tyre card in glove box is 9942992







at least i own the only black "windowless" on the register..... ;D


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/06/2008 10:38:15 PM
Message:

Including that van I have 5 x 2214 (Tuxedo black) Sandmans recorded. One is a ute so its guaranteed as windowless! Interesting that the Tuxedo HJ van recorded is a black with black trim.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 20/06/2008 9:19:49 PM
Message:

hey byron are the other 2 black vans hjs? im waiting for someone to take the cake with a hz 308 turbo 400 tuxedo black with black trim & aircon or maybe the blue trim 23c thats my dream car, its got to be out there.........

I just think the black ones are more likely to be written off first ;D


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/06/2008 10:51:47 AM
Message:

1 x HJ 70 19V L32 M20
1 x HJ 70 19V L31 M21
1 x HX 70 60A L32 M20
1 x HX 70 60A L31 M21
1 x HX 70 65A L32 M40
1 x HX 80 18V L32 M20

Oddly enough, none are Acacia build.


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 21/06/2008 1:28:07 PM
Message:

Hi Byron, probably a big ask but I was wondering if you could post up how many Sandmans you have recorded in each colour. I am interested to know which are the most common and rarest colours of each model.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 21/06/2008 6:00:28 PM
Message:

another one 4 the register:
BHJ17525B
2 seater, 2200 kg, 9/75

VIN: 8M70RFH362193J

Body tag:
HJ8WM70 XX7
Body:362193B
Trim: 1905-19V
568 - 17342 ( Jamacain Lime, same as one on brochure with hippy guy +guitar)
L32, M20, GU4

Sorry jason, i forgot the get tyre placard #, i know you have a special interest in 1975 sandman tyre placards




He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 21/06/2008 6:37:02 PM
Message:

im interested to see a "76" build year hj with a 6cyl. havent come across one yet..... as its placard "should" be diferent to the unique 76 xx7 v8 placard.

byron do you have any 76 build hjs with a 6cyl on your register even?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/06/2008 12:02:50 PM
Message:

Ive got a 9/76 HX 202 M20 Acacia XX7 van with 9942990 placard recorded but that is a 77 model.
An 11/75 HJ 202 M20 Acacia XX7 van but no placard recorded.
A 2/76 HJ 202 M40 Pagewood XX7 van, but I never wrote down the placard as at the time I didnt think there was any significance to HJ placards. This van is the one in the photo on my website that shows the headlining rear strip. It had 4 wheel drums too! I have the plates off it.
Plus a few others in 76 model but no placards.
Your best bet is probably getting Nicks tyre placard off the 6cyl HX XX7 brochure car (red ute) that was built during HJ production (4/76). It has HJ 19V trim so it may have a HJ placard. Its on Ebay at the moment - has a white roof.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 22/06/2008 7:03:19 PM
Message:

Bryon,
i just got the Jamacian Lime HJ van home today.
original paint and stickers.
the Hippy guitar guy brochure pic is slightly different with a few aspects.
- it looks to have premier mirrors,
- the "sandman" side sticker is lower than mine + others i have seen
- also, no black outs around the windows/ doors.

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 25/06/2008 10:41:36 AM
Message:

anotherone, this one is owned by one of my mates and has been in storage for 15 years.
original sales docket

11/78 2000Kg
2 seater BHZ36620A (matching chassis rail)

8WM70RL431174Z

Body 431174
Trim 1930-23C (BLUE)
Paint 568-30521 (palis white with blue decals)

L32 M20 GV4

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/06/2008 10:54:28 AM
Message:

Nice one.

My absolute favourite 2 Sandmans would be a HQ 308 4speed Kingswood Sandmans ute in white or yellow with black trim or a HJ 308 TH400 Kingswood Sandman ute in yellow with black trim. I like the earlier ones better as they have GTS guards and stripes are nicer, although HZ vans/utes especially white with delete stripes look good too.

There often appear to be differences between brochure cars and the real thing.

Absinth, one day ill get around to doing colour and trim lists. It wont tell you much though. Just look at how many blue and silver GTS327s are around today. From what ive been told red and yellow were much more common when new.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 25/06/2008 5:37:33 PM
Message:

For me, the HX is the least desirable.
single headlight, no GTS guards.

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 25/06/2008 6:36:09 PM
Message:

Jason - sent you the tyre placard number from the 4/76 HX 6 cyl sandman ute. It is 9942990


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/06/2008 6:54:27 PM
Message:

Unfortunately thats a HX 6cyl XX7 or XU4 one, meaning your ute is a true hybrid ie some HJ some HX.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 25/06/2008 7:29:08 PM
Message:

Thats what I thought when I checked the number. Funny that they had the tyre placard sorted but not the trim code.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 26/06/2008 07:56:15 AM
Message:

yes got your email cheers. your correct is very interesting that they even had the placards made by than. If you get bored id love a pic. out of interest.

I dont plan on reproducing it as rare spares are now reproducing tyre placards. so how many non sandmans will there be with sandman placards??

Byron i will try to email you later on. I will send you some pics of the tyre placards i have reproduced. also some pics of the rare spares one. Good thing is the rare spares ones are incorrect and incorrect layout/size/font. So it will be easy to pic a fake placard on a non sandman if brought from rares. I do not sell a sandman placard to someones that car is not a sandman. (has got me in trouble atleast once on ebay). But thought you maybe interested to see the correct original vs my repros vs rares repros.

(sorry not trying to have a go at rares. they produce many parts that we would be screwed without.)

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: tony
Replied on: 27/06/2008 08:40:22 AM
Message:

looking at the chrome yellow hq plated sandman panelvan on ebay today
did hq vans all have the side finned body vents above and behind the doors or did some not?
or could this be a replated hj or another later model


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 27/06/2008 08:42:32 AM
Message:

Only approx the first half of HQ Sandman build had vents. The last 3 months or so of them were blank.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: walky rep
Replied on: 29/06/2008 12:05:23 PM
Message:

is m40 trimatic a th350?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/06/2008 1:43:45 PM
Message:

Trimatic in HQ-VL, TH400 in C20/K20/C30. TH350 is M38 in WB and VC/VH but kept M41 in HZ/VB.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 29/06/2008 3:30:01 PM
Message:

gidday fellas
restoring sandman to original
paint 567-15945 jade green
trim 1899-60 chamois what colour should the dashpad and glovebox lid and surround be and also the carpet and full roof lining
with this trim comboany help appreciated

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/06/2008 5:43:07 PM
Message:

What model? HJ?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 29/06/2008 6:18:24 PM
Message:

T-Dog. more info is needed to identify which colour trim you should have.

HJ or HX Sandman?

60A or 60V if a HJ .....60A is Chamois/Black and 60V is Chamois/Covert

HX Sandman with 60A trim code would have black dashpad and glovebox, black carpet and Chamois headlining.

HJ Sandman with 60A trim code would have black dashpad and glovebox, black carpet and Chamois headlining.

Hj Sandman with 60V trim code would have covert dashpad and glovebox, black carpet and Chamois headlining.


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 29/06/2008 8:58:18 PM
Message:

yeh sorry
its a 5/76 hj
1899-60a
thanks

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: johnno
Replied on: 30/06/2008 8:37:12 PM
Message:

there was hq sandman has vanished from ebay must off been a fake after all
anyone know why?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 01/07/2008 3:03:07 PM
Message:

also should the kick panels be chamois or blackquote]Originally posted by t-dog

yeh sorry
its a 5/76 hj
1899-60a
thanks

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!
[/quote]

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 01/07/2008 3:04:39 PM
Message:

also should the kickpanels be chamois or black

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: Stewart
Replied on: 06/07/2008 10:39:08 PM
Message:

Byron, I have a HQ van that has all the options of a Sandman from the factory but is not a Sandman, on the compliance plate there is no engine type or diff ratio, it is an original 2 seater and M20 as per the compliance plate, pity it was manufactured in 73. I have contacted Sandman clubs etc and they said that if it wasnt built in 73 they would have thought it was a Sandman. Does it warrant a mention in your register, maybe it was a prototype Sandman. I did own an original HQ Sandman in the 80s and still have some rego papers, I would be interested to see if it is still haging around


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/07/2008 08:38:58 AM
Message:

1973 means no Sandman, but I would still be interested in the ID data.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: scotty
Replied on: 07/07/2008 3:32:04 PM
Message:

i have a sandman all numbers check out except for trim code which is 60m its a HJ from acacia ridge any help?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/07/2008 5:47:21 PM
Message:

If its Acacia Ridge and a HJ Sandman it will have XX7 (or if late HJ possibly XU3) stamped in the top RH corner of the BODY plate and you dont have to be concerned about TRIM codes. Ive never seen a 60M trim before either. Only 60W, 60X, 60V and 60A. Is the M an upside down W?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 07/07/2008 6:25:32 PM
Message:

What do you make of this one Byron. Has all the Sandman identifiers but not XX7 stamped.




Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/07/2008 8:12:44 PM
Message:

Have a few of them now. All Acacia Ridge. Not really sure what to think about them either. One is a 3 seater as well.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 08/07/2008 4:39:41 PM
Message:

Were there any limited edition sandmans built in 1975?.
Double interior light, van wall upholstery etc?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 08/07/2008 5:02:49 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

What do you make of this one Byron. Has all the Sandman identifiers but not XX7 stamped.







Tricky. could it be an XU3?, when is the earliest recorded brisbane XU3 stamped car????

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/07/2008 5:20:31 PM
Message:

XU3 didnt start till some time in 1976 model.

I have photos of a Papaya "show" van, supposedly decked out in the back by Holden. Cowl even has "GMH test vehicle" stamped in it. Probably a motor show car.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 08/07/2008 5:43:30 PM
Message:

bryon, did you get photos?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/07/2008 6:03:34 PM
Message:

I got one.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 08/07/2008 6:10:31 PM
Message:

does the "show " van have 2 interior lights?
is it like the pics i have sent?

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/07/2008 7:28:19 PM
Message:

I didnt see any photo with interior lights for the Papaya van. Does look factory though. I wonder if it was an option?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 08/07/2008 10:44:51 PM
Message:

Absinth, if i email you some photos of this "show" GMH van interior, would you be able to attach the to this thread?
adam

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 09/07/2008 12:08:52 AM
Message:

No problem Adam, I can do that for you.


Reply author: rinny
Replied on: 10/07/2008 11:20:06 AM
Message:

have you a VK SHELL and how much for roolling chassis can you assist spoke to Steve and he put me onto you


Reply author: Junior
Replied on: 12/07/2008 08:00:53 AM
Message:

All very interesting reading, the research you have done Byron is great, my qestion therefore is.....what is an absolutely original Sandman worth, they so rarely come up for sale without loads of rust, incomplete genuine features, in 308 with factory fittied features...etc etc...If one does come up how much is it reallly worth with say 300,00kms..your opinion would be greatly valued


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/07/2008 08:52:53 AM
Message:

Depends on the model, driveline etc

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Junior
Replied on: 12/07/2008 09:39:31 AM
Message:

Byron...its HX 1977,white,black interior, original factory 308 untouched (clean as a whistle), factory fittied A/C & power stering, original screen and all original paint, original carpets, full hood lining no tears, tinted rear window (as per factory air), tubo 400 auto, 336,000 kms, vertually no rust, original stone chips and scratches as for a 1977 holden, I am just getting into this Sandman thing and would again value you opinion...all plates and numbers as per yours and owners club numbers all match, I have original manual and delivery sheet for the vehicle..thanks heaps


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/07/2008 09:56:05 AM
Message:

In my opinion, if it went through Shannons it would pull high $20,000s, maybe even crack $30k. Although I reckon a TH400 example is more valuable many value the manual higher. Its almost the ultimate combination for me. The only way to make it better for me would be to make it a HJ Kingswood ute. ID data would be great if you do buy it, plus a copy of the build sheet. It all helps to put the puzzle back togetehr.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Junior
Replied on: 12/07/2008 10:12:56 AM
Message:

Thanks Byron....let me know where I can buy one for even 30K...just kidding...Let me know where I can send info(e-mail) or you can e-mail your details to me lx8junior@hotmail.com


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/07/2008 10:20:45 AM
Message:

Youll struggle to find them as described anywhere, but theyll always be pushed down value wise by Monaros. My email address is on my website.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Damo
Replied on: 13/07/2008 9:25:31 PM
Message:

Byron,
Im curious to know why you say a HJ kingswood ute (i presume you are talking sandman) is better?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 14/07/2008 08:16:19 AM
Message:

Yes, HJ Kingswood ute with XX7 option.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: tony
Replied on: 14/07/2008 2:39:04 PM
Message:

hi guys
does anyone know the actual change over date for hq to hj?

and is it even remotely possible for hq gts guards to have been pressed with th new hj slots at this time and then fitted to an hq?
just curious


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 14/07/2008 2:48:56 PM
Message:

Im pretty sure its september 1974. I have both HQs and HJs recorded as 9/74 build. Not sure of the actual day. If you have HQ guards with HJ flutes and they arent welded in then they were probably pressed by the guy that used to do them in Western Sydney. I seriously doubt any HQ ever left a Holden assembly plant with HJ flutes, but stranger things have happened.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: tony
Replied on: 14/07/2008 3:25:19 PM
Message:

yeh thans byron
the west sydney guy thing makes some sort of sense

there s a guy in maryborough qld that can press hj slots easily, but not possible to press hq slots with out cutting the edge of the guard to fit on his press and welding back on after pressing the only way to do it without weld in panels apparently


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 14/07/2008 6:03:19 PM
Message:

hi there fellas
what would u make of this hq ute
5/74 4850 2
coupe utility
EHQ 2 XXXX S
matching chassis

8N8070H8 XXXXX Q

MODEL 80480QR
BODY 8 XXXX 8F
TRIM 1877-30E
PAINT 568 15827
L31 M21 GV2

GTS DASH GTS GUARDS SANDMAN LOGO STEERING WHEEL

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 14/07/2008 6:19:06 PM
Message:

Good chance of being a Sandman. 30E trim is normal for a HQ Kingswood Sandman ute but also normal for a plain Kingswood ute. Does it have interior light door switches? Console mounting holes?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 14/07/2008 6:25:44 PM
Message:

HAS THE DOOR LIGHT SWITCHES
have to check for the console mounts tommorrow

also has a number stamped on the firewall ending in an S but it is 129 higher than the chassis / vin number


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 14/07/2008 9:06:18 PM
Message:

That firewall number is important but doesnt match anything else. 129 difference is about right.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Damo
Replied on: 15/07/2008 4:56:24 PM
Message:

So Byron, does that make the HJ kingswood ute with XX7 the rarest of the sandmans?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/07/2008 5:14:30 PM
Message:

No, I just reckon although the HQ looks better, I like the HJ because the TH400 was available, which to me makes it my ultimate - say a white with black trim HJ Kingswood XX7 ute in L31, M41, GU4 with air and steer. The rarest would probably be one of the 6cyl examples, maybe a 6cyl auto HX Sandman ute or a HQ 6cyl maybe. The HQ Kingswood XX7 ute in 308 M21 with air and steer is probably the most desirable and valuable. Possibly also an HX Overlander ute/van sold new through a Holden dealer may be the rarest of all.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 15/07/2008 6:50:51 PM
Message:

hi byron
havent had a chance to check the ute fro the console mounting holes today
if it does or doesnt have them, then what does that mean re it being a kingswood sandman?

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 15/07/2008 7:49:05 PM
Message:

have a mate who also has a 1877-30e 568-15827 barbados green hq kingswood ute
it has gvw 4850 seating 3 but the engine trans and axle are all blank he has another hq kingswood ute nutmeg seating 3 but only the eng type is blank . any way is a seating 2 hq kingswood ute an uncommon thing

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/07/2008 8:26:20 PM
Message:

Blank means 253 3 speed as it must be a 480 due to 4850lb GVW. Only ENG blank means its a 173 or a 253 (380 or 480) with optional transmission (M40 or M20) and optional diff.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 16/07/2008 8:07:51 PM
Message:

Going to pick this up next weekend
Needs a heap of work
What do you think?


Safety compliance
HJ......... PANEL VAN ....... 3-75
VIN ................8M70TEH346186J
BODY ID PLATE
MODEL............... HJ8WM70--- XX7................ HOLDEN Sandman panel van
BODY.................346186B
TRIM..................1886-19V................... black (removed my stuff up:)
PAINT..................568-15949................ Absinth Yellow

ENG..................L31 .............- 308.
TRANS..............M21 ..............- Four speed close ratio floor shift manual.
RAXLE..............GU4 .............- 3.08:1.

Did all HJ Sandmans Have Colour coded tail light surrounds?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/07/2008 8:46:29 PM
Message:

No. HJ Kingswood Sandman should be chrome.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 17/07/2008 12:29:17 PM
Message:

Sounds like a nice van, but where did you get the chamois/covert from?

Leroy


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 17/07/2008 1:26:01 PM
Message:

I have a sandman with a CHAMOIS/COVERT interior. Same colour as the one in Tdogs avatar I reckon.

Looks a little something like this:


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 17/07/2008 1:47:30 PM
Message:

What I meant was the trim line was 1886-19V is Absinth Yellow-Black vinyl where did the 60V Chamois/Covert come from?
Leroy


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 17/07/2008 4:05:27 PM
Message:

i found i trawling through this dam long forum...when I get it I will confirm


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 18/07/2008 4:01:35 PM
Message:

i re read page 22 and yea i stuffed up it should be 19v--Black only sorry this is all new to me :)


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 18/07/2008 6:08:35 PM
Message:

I am trying to get a letter from Holden re the authenticity of my Sandman Van.

Proving to be difficult.

They want to put this paragraph in:
"Please be advised, a Sandman can be identified by one of the following option codes on the Body and Option plate – XU3, XX7 or XY5, dependent on whether the vehicle is a panel van or utility."

They have agreed to take it out now as I have requested but will not verify a Sandman.

I can live with this but they are saying that my Van has an M@@ transmission even once I sent them the Plates with M20 on them. Once it is on the computer seems it can not be any different to that..

Did HZ vans even come with an M22?

Anyone had any luck with Holden on this issue?


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 18/07/2008 6:09:35 PM
Message:

I am trying to get a letter from Holden re the authenticity of my Sandman Van.

Proving to be difficult.

They want to put this paragraph in:
"Please be advised, a Sandman can be identified by one of the following option codes on the Body and Option plate – XU3, XX7 or XY5, dependent on whether the vehicle is a panel van or utility."

They have agreed to take it out now as I have requested but will not verify a Sandman.

I can live with this but they are saying that my Van has an M22 transmission even once I sent them the Plates with M20 on them. Once it is on the computer seems it can not be any different to that..

Did HZ vans even come with an M22?

Anyone had any luck with Holden on this issue?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/07/2008 6:16:43 PM
Message:

There is no point getting a letter from Holden for a Sandman. Not even worth the paper its printed on. Same for a HQ GTS 4-door or SS. The fact that both of these are options on Base model or Kingswood isnt recorded in the build records. Plus they are wrong about the option codes being on the BODY plate (only true for Brisbane examples), and XY5 isnt a Sandman code either AND Sandman option codes are not dependant upon whether vehicle is a ute or van.

M22 is a 6cyl only gearbox, and as all HZ Sandmans are V8 it is impossible. You could get M22 boxes in HQ-HX 6cyl. In fact for a time in HQ thats all you could get in a HQ 6cyl ute/van/tonner.

Cut and paste this to them if you wish, and see what their response is. They obviously have little idea about what they are talking about.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 18/07/2008 6:59:00 PM
Message:

Thanks Byron. I have done just that. Should be interesting.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 19/07/2008 02:17:23 AM
Message:

letter of authenticity.

how can holden still do these? there is no one in holden still that has any idea. 90% of them would proberly ask XX7 whats that.... Holden dont have any records. so it makes me wonder why they even bother offering the service....


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 19/07/2008 08:50:31 AM
Message:

Check this Byron A HJ 308 T400 HJ UTE (Sandman)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sandman-Ute_W0QQitemZ220258810916QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:AU:102
seems ok for whats included


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/07/2008 10:48:22 AM
Message:

To me that is the ultimate Sandman. Yellow with black trim HJ Kingswood Sandman ute in 308, TH400, 2.78 diff. Only needs factory air and steer! The spare body should sell for $1500 alone, so it is a bargain. The spare body is obviously not the Sandman body as it doesnt have the TH400 speedo cable hole, so the original must be the complete ute.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 19/07/2008 11:16:36 AM
Message:

damn have to agree. thats nice! Defently one of the nicest sandmans! If i was to buy another sandman the ultimate for me would be a white HZ sandman ute 308 t400 with buckskin interior. Would go great with my hz gts. But i guess i can keep dreaming!

That sandman above you can not go wrong with. If only it was a brissy car! one of the first lowered gvm also. very nice.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 21/07/2008 10:08:00 AM
Message:

does the trim code say 18V? I thought 19V was the trim code for black in HJ?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/07/2008 10:55:07 AM
Message:

Its a Kingswood, where black was always 18V from HJ-HZ. 19V is only for Holden in HJ and only for non-Sandman Holden in HX/Z.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 21/07/2008 12:06:20 PM
Message:

roger. Cheers for that. Cant understand why you guys want autos though .... must be getting old :-)


Reply author: Mikey
Replied on: 21/07/2008 12:17:55 PM
Message:

that guy lives 2 streets away. he is a F@#D man really. little house and a huge shed in the back yard with some really pricey bits now. he bought years ago when they werent worth anything. he asked me about a few things on holdens. that ute is really clean. it is worth the dollars.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/07/2008 12:28:17 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

roger. Cheers for that. Cant understand why you guys want autos though .... must be getting old :-)



Its not wanting an auto, its what the TH400 gives you. Maintained properly they last forever, never break (especially behind a 308) and turn a Sandman into a very effective tow vehicle. I know they sap a bit of power but with a modern torque converter they can really boost low rpm torque. I like manuals where it counts like I wouldnt have an auto SLR/SS 308 or HT/G GTS350. If Holden had used Muncies insead of Aussie 4 speeds behind the 308 Id probably value those higher. Plus Id rather a 4 speed HQ Sandman than a trimatic one.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 21/07/2008 1:42:41 PM
Message:

Official Holden answer to wrong ID on their system is:

"Holdens position is, we write what is in our records.

Unfortunately we cannot amend our records. Therefore, it seems we cannot assist you further"

Thats that then. You can not argue with a computer. I guess I have a very unique Sandman with an L32 and an M22. Reminds me of Little Britain: "Computer says No!!!"


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/07/2008 2:07:56 PM
Message:

That about sums it up!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 21/07/2008 7:15:58 PM
Message:

about the GMH letter of verification:
GMH say they will give me a Sandman letter of verification my 1975 XX7, but not the 1979 XX7, because they lost the records from 1977 to 1985 or something.


He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 21/07/2008 7:24:00 PM
Message:

Rare beast:
10 / 77 Van
L31, M41, GU4
Body 396120A
trim 1887-60V
Paint :568 15950 (absinth)

AHZ03103A
2 seat.
1950GVM

VIN: 8M70THL396120Z
WIndowless

He who hesitates, -**********s.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2008 09:25:03 AM
Message:

Another rare van, probably a BO6 XU4. To the uninitiated this may appear as a Sandman. Anyone know the colour? Must be a fleet special?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HZ-Sandman-Panel-Van-Complete-As-Is_W0QQitemZ150273739798QQihZ005QQcategoryZ35227QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2008 09:48:01 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by adam PERTH

Rare beast:
10 / 77 Van
L31, M41, GU4
Body 396120A
trim 1887-60V
Paint :568 15950 (absinth)

AHZ03103A
2 seat.
1950GVM

VIN: 8M70THL396120Z
WIndowless

He who hesitates, -**********s.



Adam, 1887 is Chamois, not Absinth. Very rare colour. I only have one other recorded (a HX).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2008 09:54:14 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by adam PERTH

about the GMH letter of verification:
GMH say they will give me a Sandman letter of verification my 1975 XX7, but not the 1979 XX7, because they lost the records from 1977 to 1985 or something.


He who hesitates, -**********s.



Not sure how Holden can give you a verification letter for a Sandman as the build records dont distinguish between a normal van and a Sandman. The only way they can do it is if its an Acacia Ridge example with XX7 or XU3 on the plate, and then they just tell you what you know anyway.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 22/07/2008 2:40:11 PM
Message:

Byron that van is Police Blue (4500). Im interested in the colour this one was meant to be trim SVO paint 567-1453-2-1A http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HQ-GTS-Monaro-coupe-gen-4spd-308_W0QQitemZ200240168896QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Leroy


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 22/07/2008 4:18:36 PM
Message:

Green HQ Sandman ute sold last night at shannons for 14k. One owner 190,000km

http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/lot/?id=AWET897LZ9B71E96


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2008 4:27:42 PM
Message:

Bugger. I reckoned itd go for double that. I would have even considered paying $14k for it. Must be the current economic climate.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2008 8:01:20 PM
Message:

Another damn metallic paint Acacia Ridge HQ commercial that isnt a Sandman:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-HQ-ute-L31-M21-QT-308-4-SPEED-FACTORY-ID-SANDMAN_W0QQitemZ300244063086QQihZ020QQcategoryZ2030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone pick from the ID plates why its not, ignoring the lack of XX7 on the BODY plate??

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Humphrey
Replied on: 22/07/2008 8:10:42 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

Another damn metallic paint Acacia Ridge HQ commercial that isnt a Sandman:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-HQ-ute-L31-M21-QT-308-4-SPEED-FACTORY-ID-SANDMAN_W0QQitemZ300244063086QQihZ020QQcategoryZ2030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone pick from the ID plates why its not, ignoring the lack of XX7 on the BODY plate??

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



for starters i would be very cautious buying anything from that seller (2lezzos)


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 22/07/2008 8:18:30 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich



Anyone pick from the ID plates why its not, ignoring the lack of XX7 on the BODY plate??





39A means bench seat?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2008 8:23:53 PM
Message:

You got it! Well A does, 39 is just the vinyl colour.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: chrome yella
Replied on: 22/07/2008 8:31:08 PM
Message:

39a would be my guess,


Reply author: chrome yella
Replied on: 22/07/2008 8:36:48 PM
Message:

whoops to slow. games over


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 22/07/2008 8:38:28 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich

You got it! Well A does, 39 is just the vinyl colour.





Just call me grasshopper .. lol

I had some help from this website called www.monaroparts.com If you havent seeen it you should check it out ;-)


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 22/07/2008 9:05:27 PM
Message:

why didnt holden ID all sandmans with sandman on the ID plate it would of made things a little easier..??


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 22/07/2008 9:25:09 PM
Message:

why didnt holden keep all records of cars produced? Dunno... to hard maybe lol...


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2008 10:37:29 PM
Message:

Because they were an option pack on a model. Like an XU-1 on a GTR, L34 on LH SLR5000, A9X on LX SLR5000, GTS on HQ Kingswood etc. Most of these you can pick because of unique identifiers, but Sandman can be difficult.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hux454
Replied on: 24/07/2008 10:43:50 PM
Message:

Great reading. Question I have is were the HJ Sandmans flutes in the gts guards blacked out or were they the same colour of the guards. Ive seen factory brochures with both which is the confusing part?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 29/07/2008 8:38:06 PM
Message:

here is one on eay at the moment form that GVM changeover period 11/77
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HZ-Sandman-panelvan-Original-sandman_W0QQitemZ120287384827QQihZ002QQcategoryZ2030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

"bog and Flog"


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/07/2008 8:51:28 PM
Message:

I have it recorded but the chassis number is hard to read.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 31/07/2008 11:00:47 AM
Message:

hi byron
what are the differences between an hq M belmont sandman ute
and an hq N kingswood sandman ute?
is there different chrome trims or bits etc?
There is one M Sandman ute on ebay which mentions that it could be one of only 13 hq sandmans (PV & Utes) left today.
as i have an hq kingswood sandman ute, would that be included in the 13 mentioned or was there more HQ Kingswood SANDMANS THAN BELMONTS
cheers T-Dog

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 31/07/2008 5:50:08 PM
Message:

I dont know where he gets the 13 from. Look closely at the BODY plate too . The first line reads 80180, and the M21 looks funny. May be legit though with a mistake, but sure makes it hard to sell.

The differences between a Kingswood Sandman and Belmont Sandman are the same as between a normal Kingswood and Belmont ute. Not sure of all the differences, but trim, chrome tail-lights, stainless around the windows are a few. Remember in HQ XX7 was just an option pack like any other option pack. I listed what options on my website - from memory fluted guards, full instrument dash, M20/M22, bucket seats plus a few more. They simply added these to a Kingswood or Belmont ute, and deleted a few things like side strips on the Kingswood.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mikey
Replied on: 31/07/2008 9:08:34 PM
Message:

i stopped today to see a HJ Sandman in a front yard. i knocked on the door and got an answer from a guy close to 60. he said he bought it new and its not for sale. He did let me have a look. its a XX7 with 19V trim. with 253 M20 GV4. No numbers on the GVM and it has a seating cap. of 3 and it looks like the seats and console never been changed. so what could it be.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 31/07/2008 10:07:10 PM
Message:

Hi Mikey.

A compliance plate with no GVM figure is usually a non-commercial. Did this plate look to be original.

Dr Terry


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 31/07/2008 10:13:16 PM
Message:

nice work byron so its a factory 6 cylinder right?
did the sixes have the 4 speed floor or column shift manual or t-bar auto column available?

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 31/07/2008 10:40:22 PM
Message:

Maybe, could be a mistake too. The VIN says T for 308.

Any Sandman 173 - 308 was a floor shift, either 4 speed or T-bar if auto optioned.

Mikey, if seating capacity is 3 its not a Sandman and wouldnt (or shouldnt) say XX7.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/08/2008 07:26:13 AM
Message:

Looks like a mistake. Original records show it as an 80270.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mikey
Replied on: 01/08/2008 7:45:29 PM
Message:

the plates did look to be orginal. but a blank GVM with a seating cap. of 3. what would that be from if it has been changed, and the hood lining was gone and it had the rear brace and the side bits to hold up a hood lining.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/08/2008 7:50:36 PM
Message:

I dont think its possible to get a blank GVW (all ute, van and tonner had a GVW) with 3 seating capacity (no sedan, wagon or coupe had a 3 seat capacity). The ADR plate should tell you what it was off ie sedan, wagon, coupe utility, van etc.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 19/08/2008 3:52:47 PM
Message:

Anyone know when the last Hz sandman UTE was produced ?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/08/2008 4:30:11 PM
Message:

Late march 1979.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 23/08/2008 4:14:00 PM
Message:

I just picked up another sandman today ..
Hz8wm80 XX7
60 v trim
paint 1929 Opaline Blue
L32
M40
GU4

12/77
seating 2

and the odd thing is the GVW...
1860 kg

Is this normal...?

from what i can see it is an XU4 gvw????????

Ps... I may be selling the chassis and body with plates if anyone wants it...I only bought the ute for the 308 and t350 that was fitted...






Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 23/08/2008 4:27:30 PM
Message:

btw the tyre plackard is 9942987..interior has been changed to black so I not sure if it is correct glove-box


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/08/2008 5:14:12 PM
Message:

From what Ive seen so far 1860kg is the corret GVW for a 1977 plated (ie on the ADR plate) HZ XX7. They seem to change to 1950kg about the same time the XX7 vans went from 1950kg to 2000kg (late December 1977). Tyre placard is not original. Can you send me the full ID, as stuff like this helps to paint the picture better? The change from 1860kg to 1950kg is something I havent put on my website as yet.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 24/08/2008 10:27:54 AM
Message:

vanman im interested in the ute. dropping you a email now =)

cheers
jason


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 24/08/2008 11:09:45 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by vanman

I just picked up another sandman today ..
Hz8wm80 XX7
60 v trim
paint 1929 Opaline Blue
L32
M40
GU4

12/77
seating 2

and the odd thing is the GVW...
1860 kg

Is this normal...?

from what i can see it is an XU4 gvw????????

Ps... I may be selling the chassis and body with plates if anyone wants it...I only bought the ute for the 308 and t350 that was fitted...

i also have a opalene blue ute, adelaide build, 11/77.
It is 1860Kg and same driveline as yours.
yours is interesting , because the change of GVW isnt exactly known excactly.
12/77 may be when the change to 1950kg was made.








WANTED: QR 662xxx


Reply author: G
Replied on: 29/08/2008 8:59:12 PM
Message:

Hi, can u guys give me some info on my HQ ute?
COMP PLATES:
HOLDEN HQ CAB CHASSIS
07/73
DHQ 31004A
GVW 5700lbs

MODEL: HQ80160
BODY No: 80552 A
TRIM: 1860-34A
PAINT: 568-15350

VIN: 8M60LCL246149Q

Cheers



Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 30/08/2008 10:18:16 AM
Message:

As a stab Id say Adelaide built 6cyl one tonner with bench seat. Not sure on the paint or trim.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 30/08/2008 10:21:28 AM
Message:

34A is blue trim


Reply author: G
Replied on: 30/08/2008 1:54:34 PM
Message:

Cheers mate, i found out the paint is Wedgewood (some description of blue?!)I was also curious about the Body No and the vin not matching. . ive read this does happen. . and if all 3 plates, do go together??


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/08/2008 6:02:37 PM
Message:

Adelaide PSN didnt appear on the BODY plate until mid-late HX so all OK.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: G
Replied on: 30/08/2008 9:53:44 PM
Message:

Sweet. .Thanks


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 02/09/2008 11:31:52 AM
Message:

These are from my 2 sandmans...






Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 02/09/2008 5:55:42 PM
Message:

just a Q.

why hide a body number? because its the chassis number thats registed? Just interested =).

cheers
jason


Reply author: ringfeder3
Replied on: 04/09/2008 7:07:12 PM
Message:

Gday Byron,

can you give me a pointer as to what the following numbers signify:

7/76 HX Coupe Utility.
L32/ M20/ GU4
GVW 1860 kgs
VIN AHX00958M
Seating Capacity: 2
Chassis: 8M880RFJS32660X
Tyre placard number: 99422827

Anything interesting?

Regards

Steve


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/09/2008 8:15:01 PM
Message:

HX base model ute with 253. Possibly Sandman. Chassis and VIN are arse about.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Jimmy
Replied on: 04/09/2008 9:26:23 PM
Message:

Gday byron just wanna do a check on these numbers please
model, HZ8WM70
body no, 469790-A
trim, 0924-67C
paint, 568-4500
eng,L32
trans, m40
rr axle, GU4
yr 11/79
gvm, 1950
seating, 2
long tag,8M70RKL469790Z
i was told it was either a sandman or a police pack if you could email me at calaisvl@dodo.com.au i would appreciate any help you can give me
cheers jimmy


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/09/2008 07:44:05 AM
Message:

Its not a Sandman, its just a normal van with XU4 option (sedan tyres). To be a HZ XX7 Sandman after 12/77 the GVW should be 2000kg and the last HZ Sandman van was built around october 1979.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 05/09/2008 07:53:23 AM
Message:

Trim 924 (& paint 568-4500) is South Australian Police Blue, so it was probably a divi van.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: Ringfeder3
Replied on: 06/09/2008 1:13:40 PM
Message:

Thanks for that, how would I confirm if it is, in fact, a Sandman from these numbers?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 06/09/2008 3:01:44 PM
Message:

You cant from those numbers. If it has 18V trim code you can.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Ringfeder3
Replied on: 08/09/2008 7:07:16 PM
Message:

OK, how about TRIM CODE 1890 - 18V and PAINT CODE 568 - 15953. No option codes. Tyre Placard 942991, my mistake.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/09/2008 7:41:45 PM
Message:

1890 is the paint code. 18V is slate black trim and on a base model HX ute/van sold new in Australia that spells Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: colin
Replied on: 13/09/2008 1:38:36 PM
Message:

Hi Byron,
you have previously confirmed my hx panelvan is a sandman. could you also let me know the original paint colour trim-1918 which is royal plum metalic paint-17773 which is bordeaux ???????
trim - 1918 18v
paint - 567 17773
thanks,
colin


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 13/09/2008 3:19:36 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by vanman

These are from my 2 sandmans...









The GVm change from 2200 to 1950, on te brisbane build, is somewhere between:
BHJ 17525B to BHJ18142B.
only 600 cars different..

WANTED: QR 662xxx


Reply author: tony
Replied on: 15/09/2008 10:35:53 PM
Message:

sandman project on ebay 3 seat 308 4speed floor, is it a genuine sandman?
Item number: 300258565933


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 15/09/2008 11:30:06 PM
Message:

hi tony. answer is in your question. 3 seater = NO to sandman.....


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 21/09/2008 7:11:31 PM
Message:

My human error..

I had a HZ panel van which I ended up using for spares when I bought a better HZ panel van (less rusty with 253) and sent the first one off to get crushed :( ....anyway it had a GVW 2155, seating cap. 3, ENG L20, Trans m40, rraxle GV7, Model HZ8WM70 (or HZ8WN70 - this record is not clear), Built date 11-78, BHZ39279A, 8M70LJL433500Z, body no. 433500-A

I didnt take pictures but I have the details recorded in pen and also as a printed hard-copy, which been typed in a word document. My digital copy excluded the detail: Paint 568-8769 and the word TOP.

Strangely my first records (written in pen) indicate the following details as they appeared on the plates:

trim 1093-67C
paint 568-8769
568-0246

Also,

TOP
ENG L20

I definitely recall the word TOP being displayed exactly as shown above, as to the paint codes, well Im going off the records I noted down - perhaps its that recurring human error issue.

Jesse

(ecoimpact on oldholden.com)


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 22/09/2008 12:25:52 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Id put about a 90% probability on it being a Sandman. 67C is indeed an odd trim code, but it may simply be a mistake. Is the trim brown or bone (off-white)? It may be meant to be 67V or 63C. Such mistakes do happen.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Sorry I was referring to the issue of 67C


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/09/2008 08:52:56 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZpanelvanandsedan

My human error..

I had a HZ panel van which I ended up using for spares when I bought a better HZ panel van (less rusty with 253) and sent the first one off to get crushed :( ....anyway it had a GVW 2155, seating cap. 3, ENG L20, Trans m40, rraxle GV7, Model HZ8WM70 (or HZ8WN70 - this record is not clear), Built date 11-78, BHZ39279A, 8M70LJL433500Z, body no. 433500-A

I didnt take pictures but I have the details recorded in pen and also as a printed hard-copy, which been typed in a word document. My digital copy excluded the detail: Paint 568-8769 and the word TOP.

Strangely my first records (written in pen) indicate the following details as they appeared on the plates:

trim 1093-67C
paint 568-8769
568-0246

Also,

TOP
ENG L20

I definitely recall the word TOP being displayed exactly as shown above, as to the paint codes, well Im going off the records I noted down - perhaps its that recurring human error issue.

Jesse

(ecoimpact on oldholden.com)



Being a 6cyl HZ it wouldnt have been a Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/09/2008 09:01:36 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by adam PERTH

quote:
Originally posted by vanman

These are from my 2 sandmans...









The GVm change from 2200 to 1950, on te brisbane build, is somewhere between:
BHJ 17525B to BHJ18142B.
only 600 cars different..

WANTED: QR 662xxx



Its actually between:

BHJ17782B & BHJ18142B. Appears to have happened in September 1975 so closer to the first number.

VANMAN, id love to get the clouded digits off the above photos as both are significant vehicles for my Sandman register. Just the body number will do - I can work the rest out.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 23/09/2008 9:55:17 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

quote:
Originally posted by HZpanelvanandsedan

My human error..

I had a HZ panel van which I ended up using for spares when I bought a better HZ panel van (less rusty with 253) and sent the first one off to get crushed :( ....anyway it had a GVW 2155, seating cap. 3, ENG L20, Trans m40, rraxle GV7, Model HZ8WM70 (or HZ8WN70 - this record is not clear), Built date 11-78, BHZ39279A, 8M70LJL433500Z, body no. 433500-A

I didnt take pictures but I have the details recorded in pen and also as a printed hard-copy, which been typed in a word document. My digital copy excluded the detail: Paint 568-8769 and the word TOP.

Strangely my first records (written in pen) indicate the following details as they appeared on the plates:

trim 1093-67C
paint 568-8769
568-0246

Also,

TOP
ENG L20

I definitely recall the word TOP being displayed exactly as shown above, as to the paint codes, well Im going off the records I noted down - perhaps its that recurring human error issue.

Jesse

(ecoimpact on oldholden.com)



Being a 6cyl HZ it wouldnt have been a Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Yeah thats cool, not disputing that it wasnt a sandman, I realise sixers werent even in the running, however Id have thought that some of the trim codes were used for both V6 and V8s. I thought you might be interested in some pics of HZ door trims, not sure if 2 colours I have in the same pattern are original though?

In the following you were referring to someones sandman with the trim 67C, Did you find an example of that colour? (I would like to compare!)

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Id put about a 90% probability on it being a Sandman. 67C is indeed an odd trim code, but it may simply be a mistake. Is the trim brown or bone (off-white)? It may be meant to be 67V or 63C. Such mistakes do happen.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



I grabbed a whole heap of things from the one I had scrapped, door trims, bench seat, tailgate, bumpers, front grille, headlights, twin headlight nose cone and sadly forgot the radiator support (which the local tow truck driver promised to bring back two years ago :| Literally, I took everything attached on the outside!

Im pretty sure the guy I brought the scrapped panie off said the front end was off a premiere ??, however I cant be sure, if so then perhaps the trims are off another car/s.

http://gallery.oldholden.com/ecoimpact/HZ+door+trims+and+seats/


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/09/2008 06:10:17 AM
Message:

At first glance the two brown trims are WB (possibly one is tan and the other Oyster) but Id have investigate further to be sure. The lighter ones are HZ, I think beige and chamois. Again to be certain Id have to look further.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 24/09/2008 08:27:25 AM
Message:

I have a WB Kingswood ute with oyster trim which is quite different to the ones in the pics. None of the WBs Ive had have had the chrome/plastic ridge through them either. The oyster trims tend to have tan arm rests in later years (84)


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/09/2008 09:37:47 AM
Message:

The brown ones are definitly the same as every WB base model I have owned or seen, including one new WB van. I think Oyster changed colour too in about 1983. The redder example is 67V from memory. I cant remember if the WB Kingswood trims are different to base model. The ones with the plastic ridges are also definitely HZ Kingswood also possibly HX Kingswood, and I cant remember what the non-Sandman HX/HZ base model trims looked like. I also had a 1980 HZ Kingswood near to new and the lighter trim in the photos (I think its Chamois) was exactly like it.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 27/09/2008 9:05:48 PM
Message:

Other than because they didnt, does anyone know why 3 seater sandmans werent produced in an era where Id have thought 3 seating capacity (one for the owner and his two lady friends) was better compared to only one spare seat for a chick. ;)


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 27/09/2008 10:30:47 PM
Message:

Oh yeah I forgot to say thanks for the replys HK1837 and HX-sandman.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 28/09/2008 07:57:36 AM
Message:

Thats because in the 70s the girls were meant to be in the back.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 29/09/2008 12:29:48 AM
Message:

LOL. Yeah but what about when your driving hahahaha Even though Im sure that would be dangerous if there two chicks sitting next to me while driving and they were...well... not keeping their hands to themselves. haha


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 30/09/2008 8:08:32 PM
Message:

How many $$$$ do you think my HZ XX7 Sandman is worth..???(ID PLATES ON TOP OF THIS PAGE)

I have been offerd $3,000 no motor or box.. No front clip . body is fair, dash, s/wheel, console,speedy wheels and seats included...
I would like to keep it But wife wants it out of the back yard....
I want to put the money into the HJ xx7 Van..
Cheers VANMAN.....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/10/2008 06:11:42 AM
Message:

Sounds pretty close. It is a ute though which seems to be either rarer or there is a lot less of them left today. But it is a 253 example as well. Ebay would be worth a try though.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 01/10/2008 08:11:05 AM
Message:

Vanman. Mate i am VERY interested in it. My old man is looking for a hz sandman ute as a project. If possible can you drop me a email to j_ackland(at)aapt.net.au

cheers
jason


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 05/10/2008 12:03:55 PM
Message:

HZute-efi-VS5L
I have already told the guy he can have it for $3k but will contact u if sale falls through...


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 05/10/2008 12:07:15 PM
Message:

is this a Sandman ??
If so it must be the XU3 option..
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sandman-Panel-Van_W0QQitemZ170269015743QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:AU:102
And can anyone explain to me why we have an XX7 aqnd XU3 option...I cant rememember...


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/10/2008 1:27:46 PM
Message:

If it is a Sandman its an XU3 as you say. Unfortunately its one of those Sandmans that you cannot pick from the ID making it harder to sell. XU3 is normal commercial tyres. XX7 is sedan tyres. That and the corresponding drop in GVW for sedan tyres on XX7 is the only difference.

Also very unusual to have 3.08 diff with M21 box. Would be a prick in reverse or first.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 05/10/2008 7:14:00 PM
Message:

vanman. we are very keen. would be keen to possibly pay more than 3k. so let me know if its avaiable.

cheers
jason


Reply author: Johno1
Replied on: 07/10/2008 8:50:15 PM
Message:

I have an original contessa gold hj sandman high comp 253 m20 4 speed and mine is the same only having two air vents and no vent above the ciggarette ligher on the gts dash


Reply author: Johno
Replied on: 07/10/2008 8:52:19 PM
Message:

I have an original adelaide built contessa gold hj sandman high comp 253 m20 4 speed and mine is the same only having two air vents and no vent above the cig ligher on the gts dash


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 09/10/2008 9:43:19 PM
Message:

Ok. Following is in relation to my previous post (page 59/60):

I was looking through some other forums and noticed someone referring to the word "Top.", which I now notice the word on my current HZs plates.

So the 6cyl panel van I scraped years ago must of had on the plate:

Paint. 568-8769
Top. 568-0246

Did they make panel vans with different colour tops?? What colours are these codes?? Am I missing a couple of digits??


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 10/10/2008 08:04:38 AM
Message:

TOP on the body plate, refers to the colour of the roof on two-tone cars. Normally Belmonts & commercials cannot be ordered in two-tone. However, for special fleet orders they will do it. Yours appears to be just such a car. The 8769 (body colour) is a fleet colour called Light Orange, while 0246 is an old white from the FB/EK era called Snowcrest White. Iv seen Snowcrest used on the roofs of a lot of two-tone fleet cars.

Dr Terry.


Reply author: martin
Replied on: 11/10/2008 09:39:19 AM
Message:

Hi
Im looking at buying what is said to be a genuine HX Sandman. Ive gone through the tags and it looks good except a couple of things:

ADR plate is stamped 9/76 however on the long skinny plate it has a "G" which indicates 1977 according to the Sandman Owners site.

Also it has an Adelaide Body Plate while the other 2 are Sydney which is discussed on the monaroparts site. Does anyone know why Sydney vans had Adelaide Body Plates?

Tag info:

HX8WM70
______-A
1916-18V
568-17777
L31 M41 GV4

VIN: 8M70TGH9_____X

9/76
AHX_____S
1950
seating cap: 2

The 3 vehicle specific numbers Ive blanked out do not match. On my HZ Kingswood van (Brisbane built) the number on the body tag matches the numbers on the vin tag???

Any help would be greatly appreciated


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/10/2008 10:04:12 AM
Message:

Its a Sandman, and its a 1977 model. The Slate black trim is the giveaway (18V). Very rare Sandman too being a 308 TH400. Does it have factory air? Most L31 M41 HX Sandmans I have come across have been Overlanders. Also has a 3.36 diff, normally M41 examples have 3.08. Its the same build configuration as my old HZ Ambulance pack 1-tonner.

All Sydney built HJ-HZ vans use Adelaide constructed bodies hence why they have the Adelaide BODY tag and why the VIN tag doesnt match. If it was a Sydney HZ ute the BODY number would be the PSN off the VIN plate as Sydney built its own ute bodies. Brisbane constucted their own van bodies hence why your Kingswood van has the PSN as the BODY number.
The CHASSIS number that appears on the rails and on the ADR plate (ie AHX12345S) doesnt match any other numbers on any Holden from any plant, except maybe the very first HK from each plant MAY have had a chassis number of for example HK00001SS, a VIN of 80169KH500001 and a BODY number of 80169KR-00001-H5. Possible but probably unlikely.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: atlantis
Replied on: 12/10/2008 8:28:24 PM
Message:

thanks for the quick reply. ill let you know how i go. cheers, martin


Reply author: sandman77
Replied on: 22/10/2008 9:38:32 PM
Message:

This is a work mates HJ panelvan

just want to see if it is a sandman. He wanted me to find out for him . the guy he bought it off said it might be a sandman

some ones changed it to WB Statesman Caprice front & 350 chev 9inch
3/75 HJ Panelvan 2200 kg

Seating cap 2

Model HJ8WM70

Body No 345390B

Trim 1886 19V

Paint 568 15949

Eng L31 M21 GV4

8MTOTEH

The Van is yellow & has GTS white needle Dash,

thanks in advance fellas


Rusty


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/10/2008 10:32:28 PM
Message:

Its definitely not a Sandman if its a Brisbane build without XX7 or XU3 on the BODY plate..

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sandman77
Replied on: 22/10/2008 11:01:36 PM
Message:

Thats what I thought being a Brisbane with no XX7.

they must of made V8 vans without all of them being sandmans . Its pretty close but eh

Ill tell him cheers Byron.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/10/2008 06:24:54 AM
Message:

There were a LOT more V8 vans and utes made that werent Sandmans than Sandmans. At a guess id say 10:1 at least. Just look at how many V8 tonners and V8 WBs there were for an indication.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 23/10/2008 1:15:09 PM
Message:

bryon. not sure if you got this one via email.

Holden hx panelvan

12/76 ahx 20064a



GVM 1950kg seating cap 2



Model: hx8w m 70

Body No: 220818-A

Trim: 1890-60A

Paint:568-15953

Eng: L32 Trans:M20 RR Axle.GV7



Vin: 8M70RGL569611X





WANTED:
QR 662xxx
1984 WB oyster crashpad
1x15x8 Cheviot armoulite HQ
pair of 15" Dragway centrelines suit HQ


Reply author: high voltage
Replied on: 24/10/2008 8:41:44 PM
Message:

Hello Byron,
I have van I would like you to check for me.
Model HX 8 WM70

Body 221703A

1886-18V
568-15949
L32 M20 GV7
8M70RG J555375X
1/77
AHX04010 GVW1950 Seating Cap 2
Absinth Yellow 253 4 speed 2.78 Sandman ?
Brian.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/10/2008 8:49:35 PM
Message:

Yes its a HX Sandman. The Slate black (18V) trim is the key. Diff is 3.55.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/10/2008 8:55:43 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by adam PERTH

bryon. not sure if you got this one via email.

Holden hx panelvan

12/76 ahx 20064a



GVM 1950kg seating cap 2



Model: hx8w m 70

Body No: 220818-A

Trim: 1890-60A

Paint:568-15953

Eng: L32 Trans:M20 RR Axle.GV7



Vin: 8M70RGL569611X





WANTED:
QR 662xxx
1984 WB oyster crashpad
1x15x8 Cheviot armoulite HQ
pair of 15" Dragway centrelines suit HQ



Thanks Adam. VIN should be 8M70RGL369611X

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: high voltage
Replied on: 25/10/2008 11:50:50 AM
Message:

quote: Yes its a HX Sandman...
Thanks Byron.
I was wondering if the chrome roof rack and tinted bubble window on the tailgate were GMH accessories or aftermarket. Also the colour of the needle in the dash for the HX . white or yellow, and does the centre console have a lift up lid or open compartment?


Reply author: Jvanner
Replied on: 27/10/2008 10:26:50 AM
Message:

hi Just like to ask about my belmont Van? any extra info would be great.






Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 27/10/2008 11:34:49 AM
Message:

close, but no sandman.
being a brisbane build van, it should have XX7 or XU3 samped in the top RH corner of the body tag.

WANTED:
QR 662xxx
1984 WB oyster crashpad
1x15x8 Cheviot armoulite HQ
pair of 15" Dragway centrelines suit HQ


Reply author: Jvanner
Replied on: 27/10/2008 11:48:46 AM
Message:

fair enought. what is it then. being M70 its not a kingswood. could it be before they started stamping XX7 on the plates. i seen a few early HJs looking the same as my plate and late HJs with XX7. it has a full hood lining and the light swiches in the doors.


Reply author: 567 17774
Replied on: 29/10/2008 11:53:53 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by T-DOG

HI BYRON
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP
yes the van has the rear hoodlining clips
and the courtesy light switches for the doors
also gts guards


Reply author: shouldntastarted
Replied on: 02/11/2008 10:29:17 PM
Message:

Hey All,
One of my mates picked up a Van a couple of weeks ago. Needing a hand with de coding the plates. They read:
MODEL-HX8WN70 XX7
BODY NO-421501B
TRIM-1914 18V
PAINT-568 17778
ENGINE-L31 TRANS-M21 RRAXLE-GV4

BUILD DATE-6/77 HX PANEL VAN-AHX 12762B
GVW-1950 KG SEATING CAP-2

Look forward to seeing what it is and what the original specs were.

Cheers Scotty.



The mind is like a parachute! It works far better when open!


Reply author: jimmy
Replied on: 03/11/2008 4:55:29 PM
Message:

can any tell me if either one of these tags are sandman utes???
first one
HX8WN80
537082M
1888-60A
568-15951
8N80TFJ537082X

SECOND ONE
HJ8WN80
497637N
1888-64V
568-15951
8N80TFJ417637J
any help would be grateful
cheers jimmy


Reply author: jimmy
Replied on: 03/11/2008 4:57:11 PM
Message:

also the gvw reads 2200kg on both
cheers jimmy


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 03/11/2008 5:38:51 PM
Message:

jimmy HX = No.
HJ = unlikely.

WANTED:
QR 662xxx
1984 WB oyster crashpad
1x15x8 Cheviot armoulite HQ
pair of 15" Dragway centrelines suit HQ


Reply author: Steve
Replied on: 03/11/2008 10:09:20 PM
Message:

How much do you think I could sell an HX Sandman ute for? Has all compliance plates and a glovebox tyre placard. Chassis has been replaced with HQ one at some stage. Body rusted badly. No motor, diff or gearbox. Basically just ID parts. Sports dash will be removed before it is sold.... Thanks, Steve


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 03/11/2008 10:27:51 PM
Message:

to be honest not much at all. non original chassis is a downer. problem is the tags could not even be the original tags from the ute.....


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 03/11/2008 10:30:01 PM
Message:

Byron. I have sent you an email. in regards to the 76 sandman tyre placards!

Have been sent a pic of a new one!!!! throws a spanner in the works!

cheers
jason


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 03/11/2008 11:35:04 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Jvanner

fair enought. what is it then. being M70 its not a kingswood. could it be before they started stamping XX7 on the plates. i seen a few early HJs looking the same as my plate and late HJs with XX7. it has a full hood lining and the light swiches in the doors.



it is an Absinth yellow Belmont van, 253, trimatic, floor shift.
XX7 was stamped on brisbane built HQ sandmans.

the problem with this particular van is that it is actually from brisbane, lacks the XX7, and therefore it cant be a sandman.

However, if it was hypothetically from Adelaide , for example, with the same build configuration as described, there is a possibility it could be a sandman.

WANTED:
QR 662xxx
1984 WB oyster crashpad
1x15x8 Cheviot armoulite HQ
pair of 15" Dragway centrelines suit HQ


Reply author: bill
Replied on: 10/11/2008 11:11:16 PM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/sandman-panelvan-hx_W0QQitemZ180305293848QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180305293848&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 11/11/2008 9:39:42 PM
Message:

wow nice... if only it was a genuine black hj sandman. maybe it is??

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1975-Holden-HJ-sandman-ute-black-A-Utility_W0QQitemZ270300609519QQihZ017QQcategoryZ35227QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/11/2008 10:28:27 PM
Message:

Might even have L34 or A9X rims on it too!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 12/11/2008 08:12:03 AM
Message:

hmm wouldnt that be nice. 14k would be too cheap if its a genuine black sandman i would have thought!


Reply author: duddles
Replied on: 21/11/2008 12:39:53 AM
Message:

re hx sandman i have a 77 hx van seat cap 2 had full length rooflining twin door pins in front chassis no ahxc4282m trim 1886-67v paint 568-15949 8m70rgj558446x is numbers neg l32 trans m20 gv7


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 12/12/2008 6:35:48 PM
Message:

Byron
In reguards to a sandman on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/hj-sandman-rolling-shell_W0QQitemZ220328118637QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:AU:102

I was unsure if the van was a sandman due to the 2200kg GVW on a 76 van.So i asked the seller is he sure it is genuine. Below is the guys reply.

"Hi all data has been verified by monaro parts 18 months ago and if u read all data you will find there where 76 hj vans with 2200 kg as a lot of tradies wanted sandmans but not the derated gvw so there were different tyres fited which give u 2200kg gvw but thanks for your info and do some more reading "

I have not come across this before, is it true? If so how can I determine what is a sandman over all the other non acacia, 2 seater vans with the optional roof lining fitted



I dont doubt him i am just confused....

Cheers Vanman


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/12/2008 6:57:08 PM
Message:

2200kg has been on V8 Sandmans longer than a reduced GVW. All V8 Sandmans were 2200kg up until approx 1976 model, when XX7 dropped to a lower GVW and XU3 was introduced with 2200kg GVW for V8. The owner might have sent me the ID, but I couldnt have guaranteed it as one. It is odd how it has windows on one side only???

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 12/12/2008 7:52:45 PM
Message:

Thanks for that I had forgoten about the XU3 ...Windows on one side ! a little strange not my cup of tea...


Reply author: kevin88
Replied on: 13/12/2008 12:21:35 AM
Message:

hey i hope some one can help me and tell me if my sandman is a real sandman or not

Safety compliance
HJ......... PANEL VAN ....... 3-75
VIN ................8M70TEH345390J
BODY ID PLATE
MODEL............... HJ8WM70................ HOLDEN Sandman panel van
BODY.................345390B
TRIM..................1886-19V................... black
PAINT..................568-15949................ Absinth Yellow

ENG..................L31 .............- 308.
TRANS..............M21 ..............- Four speed close ratio floor shift manual.
RAXLE..............Gv4

seating cap 2 2200kg GVW

is has no xx7 or xu3 on the plate


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 13/12/2008 08:33:30 AM
Message:

No its not a Sandman, unless Holden forgot to stamp XX7 on the BODY plate (there was no XU3 in a 3/75 model), although it certainly looks like one apart from that. Even if it was a mistake no-one will ever treat it as a Sandman as all Brisbane built examples are supposed to have XX7 on them. Ive never seen a Brisbane HJ Sandman that wasnt stamped. Does it have a rear headlining and interior light switches on the door opening? What about GTS guards and wheels.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Warren Turnbull
Replied on: 13/12/2008 08:42:52 AM
Message:

I have seen a geniune 74 GTS sedan without the XV4 code on the tag, just saw teh 30Y trim code and later realised it was a Brisbane car without the code.

Warren


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 13/12/2008 11:49:52 AM
Message:

Ive seen a number of HQs as well without XX7, but not one Brisbane HJ-HZ has yet to surface with XX7 or XU3 missing. Problem is, with a HJ (and to a lesser extent HX/HZ) you can claim all day its a Sandman but if it is missing the XX7 (or XU3 with late HJ) there is no way to tell if it is or not. Even genuine books can be faked. The HQ XV4 owner is lucky as the trim code is unique to XV4, unless of course the 30Y is an error?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 15/12/2008 12:52:50 PM
Message:

How can I prove this is a genuine sandman (if i decide to sell it)?
The story....... so far

I just found and purchased a rusty HJ, Jamaica Lime sandman its a one owner car...the old guy who bought it said it was purchased as a sandman. The sandman stripes were removed aprox 12mths after he bought the van as he didnt like them...the van has gts front clip, dash, wheels, roof lining etc.. it is an Adelaide build, 6cyl, 4speed, compliance plate says 2 seater and the GVW is 2155..(I will post pics of the ids etc soon).


The glove box lid has placard number 9930172...Does the fact that the ND is not on the placard mean anything?

I think it still has the original tyres can i use them as confirmation...
I am trying to get the original paperwork for it but i think it will be long gone...

BTW were there many 6cyl sandmans sold back in the 70s?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/12/2008 5:59:20 PM
Message:

Bugger all. I think I have two recorded, and just spoke to a guy today who has bought a 202 M20 example.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: chrome yella
Replied on: 15/12/2008 9:42:04 PM
Message:

there were quite a few hx sandman vans with 202 4spd in my area east gippsland,vic 1 white,orange stripe. 1 orange,red stripe. 1 green,black stripe. all black int. Byron are you saying that there are hq sandmans brisbane built without xx7. and why wouldnt mine be one of them. re page36. cheers gary


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 16/12/2008 03:58:31 AM
Message:

chrome yella, Byron answered you on page 38.

quote:
By all accounts it should be a Sandman, but the GMH records must be wrong as yours fits in amongst others fine as a 5/74. Interestingly it fits right in with 3 x others that are all ostensibly Brisbane Sandmans that dont have XX7 on the BODY plate? Go figure. Regardless, being an Acacia Ridge build without XX7 will always make it hard to sell as a Sandman so it will never command top dollar.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/12/2008 06:26:49 AM
Message:

Its funny how not many 6cyl examples have survived. Im sure there were a number made, but they just dont exist today. GMH dropped the 173 in HX and the 6cyl altogether in HZ so obviously the demand wasnt there.

Gary, Absinth already answered your question I think.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: chrome yella
Replied on: 16/12/2008 10:44:17 PM
Message:

yep no worries, just thought id recheck. anyway i thinking about how there were quite a few 202 hx sandman vans about when new, but i cant remember ever seeing a 202 sandman ute. also all the vans were 4spd blk int. has any one else seen a 202 sandman ute, and if they have its likely to be hx i expect


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/12/2008 06:22:48 AM
Message:

1 x 202 HX Sandman ute recorded but it was the red HX brochure car so it was built well back into HJ production (HJ trim code too), and ive seen another on Ebay. Most 6cyl Sandman utes will be 202 as until late 1975 they all seem to be Kingswoods in which the base engine was a 202, and in HX the 202 was the base Sandman engine. I have a handful of HQ and HJ 6cyl vans recorded, one of which is a 173 HJ.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 17/12/2008 08:02:12 AM
Message:

I came across a HJ sandman Ute 6cyl (cant remmber exact size of 6)a while back out in the scrub. It was missing 2 id tags. it only have the body tag. which all matched sandman. oringal lime green paint was under the dodgey black respray. correct tyre placard. floor shift, original bucket seats and console mounting, door switches, gts dash wiring loom still in the dash. Everything saying its a sandman. nothing to prove its not. Was sad to see the other 2 tags missing!

wish i took some pics of it....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/12/2008 08:55:57 AM
Message:

Did you grab the tag?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 17/12/2008 2:06:51 PM
Message:

I WISH!!!! I know........ dickhead......

If i ever go that way again i will be sure to grab it!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/12/2008 2:15:40 PM
Message:

I have tag photos off a 2/76 1905-64V L20 M40 GV7 HJ Sandman van. It was a really good car too, got wrecked out a few years back (maybe 3 years (start of this thread actually) - its the van where I took the headlining strip photo for the website). It had 4 wheel drums, original motor, wheels, guards. Shell only got crushed about 12 months ago.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 17/12/2008 10:09:16 PM
Message:

bloody sad isnt it. i would nearly prefer a 6cyl sandman due to it being more rare!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/12/2008 06:16:30 AM
Message:

I could have bought it complete for $2000 but it was of no interest to me. Unless its a HJ 308 TH400 Kingswood ute XX7 it doesnt really interest me. Although a HQ 308 Kingswood ute like the one that went through Shannons a few months back for $15k might tempt me.....And I do know of a 1-owner HZ 308 M21 blue DL7 Acaicia XX7 van that Id also consider since Ive known it since the day he bought it home new.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 18/12/2008 7:52:37 PM
Message:

The cars that you grow up with going past every day are always a wanted item. There is an old bloke (family friend) that has a HQ 2 door GTS. only 253 m21. But full original paint, mud flaps etc etc. I know its not the most collectable car but i would love it more than just about any car because of growing up with it.... yes im still trying to get it!


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 20/12/2008 7:03:39 PM
Message:

My latest Sandman.. 202 4 speed


Tyre placard








Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/12/2008 8:22:49 PM
Message:

I now have the following Sandman numbers recorded:

71 x Acacia Ridge;
25 x Pagewood;
48 x Dandenong (plus the 2 x Ewets);
86 x Elizabeth

Keep em coming!


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mat308
Replied on: 06/01/2009 10:06:27 AM
Message:

The 308 im my prem was replaced with one out of a sandman van, are these any different in casting numbers or anything that a sandman owner would want or are they all much the same?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 06/01/2009 10:24:55 AM
Message:

Same thing. The only person that would pay a premium for it would be the owner of the original Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mat308
Replied on: 06/01/2009 10:39:14 AM
Message:

cheers thanks for that info


Reply author: lxtoranahzute
Replied on: 01/03/2009 3:06:01 PM
Message:

How do you tell you have a sandman ute by the tags,i was told but i have forgoten


Reply author: lxtoranahzute
Replied on: 01/03/2009 4:49:38 PM
Message:

yeah read it all,dont think i have one.i just got lost with it all lol i have a
1/80
modelHZ8WM80 Body473###A trim 1930-67C
L20 M15 GV7
Gvm 2155kg
Just a ute i guess lol let me know otherwise


Reply author: MIK
Replied on: 01/03/2009 5:17:57 PM
Message:

G/day Byron,

I hope you can determine if the ute I just bought is a Sandman?

3/76 BHJ13828M
GVW 1860kg SEAT CAP 2

MODEL HJ8WM80
BODY 516778M
TRIM 1886-19V
PAINT 568-15949
ENG L32 TRANS M40 RAXLE GV4

8M8ORF J516778J

TYRE PLACARD PART no: 9941014

Thanks for your time & help.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/03/2009 8:13:11 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by lxtoranahzute

yeah read it all,dont think i have one.i just got lost with it all lol i have a
1/80
modelHZ8WM80 Body473###A trim 1930-67C
L20 M15 GV7
Gvm 2155kg
Just a ute i guess lol let me know otherwise



This definitely isnt

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/03/2009 8:29:40 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by MIK

G/day Byron,

I hope you can determine if the ute I just bought is a Sandman?

3/76 BHJ13828M
GVW 1860kg SEAT CAP 2

MODEL HJ8WM80
BODY 516778M
TRIM 1886-19V
PAINT 568-15949
ENG L32 TRANS M40 RAXLE GV4

8M8ORF J516778J

TYRE PLACARD PART no: 9941014

Thanks for your time & help.





Hard one. Base model HJ Sandman utes are very rare, most so far recorded are Kingswoods. Auto Sandmans are virtually non existant, but funnily enough I have a near identical Melbourne base model to yours recorded with PSN J516746. The only difference is its a 3.08 diff whereas yours is a 3.36 (which incidently is rare in HJ with 253 trimatic). I dont have a chassis number for it but Id bet that if they are not consecutive then theyd be damn close. They may have been both ordered by the same dealer. The tyre placard seems to be applicable to XX7 late HJ utes as well, so based upon that Id say you have a very good chance of it being one.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: MIK
Replied on: 02/03/2009 4:46:32 PM
Message:

G/day Byron,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Your reply sounds very positive, but is there any way to find out 100%. If so I would appreciate your advise.
Thanks plenty, Mik.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/03/2009 7:44:55 PM
Message:

There is no way to tell for sure, unless you can find the build sheet under the carpet or the original log books for it.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: MIK
Replied on: 04/03/2009 1:10:16 PM
Message:

Thanks for your help, there is no duild sheet under the carpet so I will try and track down log book (needle in a haystack) but I dont like my chances. So I guess thats that.
Thanks again for your help. Mik.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/03/2009 8:09:27 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by MIK

G/day Byron,

I hope you can determine if the ute I just bought is a Sandman?

3/76 BHJ13828M
GVW 1860kg SEAT CAP 2

MODEL HJ8WM80
BODY 516778M
TRIM 1886-19V
PAINT 568-15949
ENG L32 TRANS M40 RAXLE GV4

8M8ORF J516778J

TYRE PLACARD PART no: 9941014

Thanks for your time & help.





Also, that ute left the factory with a GU4 diff, so either youve read it wrong or its stamped wrong. I thought 3.36 behind a 253 trimatic was odd, but its not impossible. Ive only ever seen 3.36 behind a 308 TH400 in a HZ tonner.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: MIK
Replied on: 05/03/2009 10:25:03 AM
Message:

G/day Byron.
It definitely reads GU4, and assuming it was stamped correctly will this limit its chances of being a Sandman? Is there any other obvious features (internal or external) that are consistant with the 1976 HJ Sandman ute that you know of? Just one more question. Is there any difference (apart from colour) between white & yellow needle gauges?
Thanks alot, Mik.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 05/03/2009 12:12:35 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by MIK

Just one more question. Is there any difference (apart from colour) between white & yellow needle gauges?
Thanks alot, Mik.


The yellow needle gauges suit HZ & WB series, white gauges suit HJ & HX series.

The needles are differently shaped & the symbol graphics are a different design. The symbols on the HZ/WB gauges were designed to the ISO standard.

Dr Terry


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 05/03/2009 1:41:16 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by MIK

G/day Byron.
It definitely reads GU4, and assuming it was stamped correctly will this limit its chances of being a Sandman? Is there any other obvious features (internal or external) that are consistant with the 1976 HJ Sandman ute that you know of? Just one more question. Is there any difference (apart from colour) between white & yellow needle gauges?
Thanks alot, Mik.




GU4 is correct. You originally typed GV4 which is unusual behind a 253 auto.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: MIK
Replied on: 05/03/2009 4:16:42 PM
Message:

Thanks boys,
Is there anything you dont know? Sorry about the misprint Byron. Clever to pick up on it, that you did tells me your the right bloke to throw questions at. Im new at this gig so Ill have plenty more in the future if you dont mind.
Thank all, Mik.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 06/03/2009 06:32:45 AM
Message:

mik. something else about gts dashes ill add. the HJ HX white needle.

HJ is diferent to HX. The only diference is in the speedo and warning light under the clock.

On HJ the high beam warning light is in the dash facia. the HJ does not use a seperate light for the park brake warning. the "brake" warning light is for brake fail and also for park brake. the high beam is next to it.

The HX uses two brake warning lights. "brake" and "park brake". The high beam warning light is moved into the speedo.

hope that helps.

cheers
jason


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 06/03/2009 10:55:12 AM
Message:

the Later WB were different to HZ also with the text style of the numbers on the odometer.
the WB went more "digital" look and were thinner than HZ.

WANTED:
QR 662xxx
1984 WB oyster crashpad
1x15x8 Cheviot armoulite HQ
pair of 15" Dragway centrelines suit HQ


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 06/03/2009 11:41:22 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

mik. something else about gts dashes ill add. the HJ HX white needle.

HJ is diferent to HX. The only diference is in the speedo and warning light under the clock.

On HJ the high beam warning light is in the dash facia. the HJ does not use a seperate light for the park brake warning. the "brake" warning light is for brake fail and also for park brake. the high beam is next to it.

The HX uses two brake warning lights. "brake" and "park brake". The high beam warning light is moved into the speedo.

hope that helps.

cheers
jason


The hi-beam light changed at HX introduction but the BRAKE & PARK BRAKE light change didnt happen until ADR31 in late 1976 or early 1977, depending on which factory. So early HX have the same BRAKE light as HJ models.

Dr Terry


Reply author: MIK
Replied on: 06/03/2009 4:49:48 PM
Message:

Thanks Jason, Adam & Doc for geting onboard, I appreciate your help.
My HJ ute isnt a rebuild but I would like to get it back to as original as possible, but from what you guys are telling me it needs little work, everything seems to be there. I have no way of knowing If its a Sandman because its log book & build sheet have gone AWOL, so I wont rush out for Sandman decals, but I will tidy up the cab a bit, Im sure that will keep me busy & broke for a while.
Can anyone tell me if theres a place in Aus that can get this clock working & recommend someone from Victoria to repair a crack in the dash.
Cheers Brothers, Mik.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 07/03/2009 12:36:26 AM
Message:

Dr Terry. So what would the early hx have where the "park brake" warning light is. or where the high beam warning light was. (now moved to the speedo) I just assumed that it would have had the seperate park brake light done at the same time as the high beam moving. Maybe it was just blank and red. Ive never seen one blank in a GTS dash. but never know....?


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 18/03/2009 6:10:04 PM
Message:

Mik...Try Howard Instruments (110 Northern Road Heidelberg West VIC
9457 4755) for the GTS clock.

They can fix them pretty cheaply, although I would not bother personally as they are very temperamental and may stop working anytime. Add to that the very annoying humming noise they make that will drive you nuts, best to just have a nice non working one.


Reply author: Bogzy
Replied on: 19/03/2009 5:37:28 PM
Message:

i was wondering if a hj sandman has 2 or 3 or 4 air vents in the dash? Are they the same style as the HQ [ plastic fins running horizontal ] or the HX- HZ kind plastic fins running vertical?
cheers


Reply author: playwme
Replied on: 19/03/2009 8:22:47 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hzsandman

Mik...Try Howard Instruments (110 Northern Road Heidelberg West VIC
9457 4755) for the GTS clock.

They can fix them pretty cheaply, although I would not bother personally as they are very temperamental and may stop working anytime. Add to that the very annoying humming noise they make that will drive you nuts, best to just have a nice non working one.



That explains a bit. I bought a HZ Premier Wagon last week and drove it out to the farm. When I went to get something out of the console later on I heard a buzzing and spent a good 5 minutes looking for it before I decided it was probably just better to disconnect the battery. Never heard the buzzing on the Ute or the Panelvan so I guess the clocks dont work in those 2.


Reply author: rocka 1
Replied on: 25/03/2009 8:34:23 PM
Message:

HI all i have a hj sandman Ive had for 25 years bought of 1 st owner lost the papers when moving sitting in shed i also just bought a hx that has sat idle since 82 last registered both are very run down i thought id just check with Holden weather original they got back today well get this im still scratching my head my hj is basically a Belmont with original v8 motor as they say numbers numbers match it and get this it come with a m22 and the hx they have no records i will post all tags soon but going on authentication sites everything matches and the placards no xxu numbers cheers kev

rocka


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/03/2009 8:57:21 PM
Message:

Holden have no records to tell you Sandman or not. It also cannot be an M22 behind a V8. Theyve made plenty of such mistakes in letters of late that I have seen. Ive seen them state M22 instead of M20 before, plus L33 when the car is clearly an L32. Makes the letters they have sent to others seem worthless if they are making such basic mistakes on stuff you can actually check up on.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rocka 1
Replied on: 25/03/2009 9:03:16 PM
Message:

thanks mate i just sent you email could you repy

rocka


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 01/04/2009 10:15:56 AM
Message:

http://i.ebayimg.com/06/!BPJD4JwBWk~$(KGrHgoOKjEEjlLmZ(ZQBJyMPpev-g~~_1.JPGhttp://i17.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/3c/90/ff9f_1.JPG

black sandman hj on ebay.... sold apparently...

now wtf? "ive been told through the sandman owners club that this model is rare due to only 70 factory black vans were produced in the hj series." only 70 ha ha...

in case those numbers dont show up byron here is the details...

bhj 21318b
1950kg
12/75
8m70rfh372387j
60v chamois trim
15991 tuxedo black
l32 m20 gu4
& its a xx7

anyone know who bought it?



Reply author: classic oz wreck
Replied on: 01/04/2009 6:29:57 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Bogzy

i was wondering if a hj sandman has 2 or 3 or 4 air vents in the dash? Are they the same style as the HQ [ plastic fins running horizontal ] or the HX- HZ kind plastic fins running vertical?
cheers




hj in the actual dash pad only had 1 vent on the left side..

going to church makes you no more a christian than standing in a garage makes you a car...


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 01/04/2009 6:52:05 PM
Message:

ill confirm that too just checked the 2 hjs i know of here & they only had the left side vent in the crash...


Reply author: rocka 1
Replied on: 04/04/2009 12:42:56 PM
Message:

I BOUGHT IT PICKED IT UP IN SHEPPARTON AM I THE MIDDLE OF STRIPPING IT AND ABOUT TO HAVE IT SANDBLASTED

rocka


Reply author: rocka 1
Replied on: 04/04/2009 12:46:57 PM
Message:

SORRY JUST REALIZED IT HAD A FEW DIFFERENT NUMBERS , I DID BY A HX WITH THE TUXEDO BLACK CODE ON EBAY IT IS ORIGINAL CHEERS

rocka


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 04/04/2009 12:55:06 PM
Message:

yeah i remember that one last year was it? chamois trim with windows ?


Reply author: rocka 1
Replied on: 04/04/2009 3:06:39 PM
Message:

HI SANDMANXX7 IM NOT REALLY UP TO DATE ON TRIM CODES IM TRYING TO PUT PICTURES OF MY HJ AND MY HX VANS ON THIS SITE BUT HAVENT HAD ANY LUCK AS YET FOR THOSE WHO CAN HELP LET ME KNOW THE HX IS MODEL HX8WM70 TRIM 2214-60A PAINT 568-15991 L32 M20 GV7 HX PANEL VAN 10-76 GVW 1950 KG SEATING 2 TYRE PLACARD 9942992 IT ALSO COME WITH AIR CON AND HAS SIDE WINDOWS CHASSIS MATCHES AS WELL AND HAS ALL ORIGINAL RUNNING GEAR HJ IS MODEL HJ8WM70 TRIM 1900-19 V PAINT 567-15946 L32 M20 GU4 HOLDEN HJ PANEL VAN 03/75 GVW 2200 SEATING 2 I HAVE HAD THIS ONE FOR 25 YEARS WAS MADE IN ADELAIDE PLACARD 9930173ND IF ANYONE WANTS MORE INFO LET ME KNOW TKNOW

rocka


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 04/04/2009 4:32:21 PM
Message:

hi rocka,

for the hx...
60a is the trim is chamois ( cream/white with a tinge of green especially on dash pad etc..)
15991 is tuxedo black
l32 253
m20 aussie 4 speed
gv7 3.55 diff
tyre placard is correct

as for the hj it appears to be a belmont? does it have the full hoodlining?


Reply author: rocka 1
Replied on: 04/04/2009 4:40:55 PM
Message:

HI SANDMANXXX I KNOW WHAT ALL THE OTHER CODES MEAN APART FROM TRIM CODES THEY BOTH HAVE FULL ROOF LINING HX MADE IN DANDENONG 8M70RG J5PLUS SERIAL NUMBER WITH X ON THE END HJ IS 8M70REL3 WITH SERIAL NUMBER AND J ON THE END HOW CAN THERE BE A HJ BELMONT CHEERS

rocka


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 04/04/2009 9:57:22 PM
Message:

Rocka, HJ Belmont existed in passenger vehicles but as you say not in Commercial. I think I have your black HX van recorded on the register but not sure about the HJ. Email me the chassis, body or VIN or part of it and ill see if its recorded.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 05/04/2009 10:07:33 AM
Message:

rocka 1

The caps lock key is the middle one on the left of the keyboard.

Seriously though, upper case type is more difficult to read & many consider it to mean that youre shouting.

Dr Terry


Reply author: rocka 1
Replied on: 05/04/2009 10:30:24 PM
Message:

Thanks doctor terry i know you dont mean to be pedantic ill remember to stay lower case cheers rocka

rocka


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 06/04/2009 10:15:45 AM
Message:

More tags for you Byron.
Sandman found for sale on NZ Site.




Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 06/04/2009 11:37:16 AM
Message:

i call the base models "belmont" by habbit.... its a monaro thing.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 19/05/2009 11:19:24 AM
Message:

For the records Byron

8M8OTGL373665X
Eng L31
Trans M21
Diff GU4

AHX24240A

PAINT-568-17779
TRIM 1915-18V

GVM 1860kg
Seating capacity 2


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 03/06/2009 2:54:20 PM
Message:

Nice HQ Sandy on Ebay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HQ-SANDMAN-UTE_W0QQitemZ160339060697QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item2554f3e7d9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Azure Blue is a colour you dont see very often and non black interior on a HQ Sandy

8M80TDH323787Q
EHQ68628B
6/74

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 03/06/2009 6:30:07 PM
Message:

The HQ is nice looking but I dont think ebay is the place to get 22k. Theres also an HJ Ute on at the moment and an HX ute finished last week. Must be ute season.


Reply author: Devils Grip
Replied on: 03/06/2009 9:55:08 PM
Message:

Hi all have been reading through this thread and thought I would put up the details of my van.

MODEL- HX8WM70 xu3
BODY NO- 397812b
TRIM - 1899 18v
PAINT - 567 15945
L31 M21 GV4

Any info would be great thanks, colours etc.


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 03/06/2009 10:07:12 PM
Message:

Paint is Jade Green Metallic (From other stuff i have read)


Reply author: Devils Grip
Replied on: 03/06/2009 10:09:08 PM
Message:

hahahah Agro thats right, its been that long I forgot.


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 03/06/2009 10:12:48 PM
Message:

No problems.
Do you need to know the trim colour?


Reply author: Devils Grip
Replied on: 03/06/2009 10:14:27 PM
Message:

Hope it is black


Reply author: GeeR
Replied on: 03/06/2009 11:58:00 PM
Message:

Yep, 18V = "Slate" black vinyl.

I dont know my Sandmans, but in a GTS that trim code also meant there was a red (i.e. crimson) stripe. Answer is probably somewhere in this huge thread!

___________________________
WTB:
- HQ coupe front windscreen mouldings
- HQ ute antique brown trim - any pieces!


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 04/06/2009 09:32:17 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Devils Grip

Hi all have been reading through this thread and thought I would put up the details of my van.

MODEL- HX8WM70 xu3
BODY NO- 397812b
TRIM - 1899 18v
PAINT - 567 15945
L31 M21 GV4

Any info would be great thanks, colours etc.



The XU3 indicates Sandman
Paint Code 15945 is Jade Green Metallic
Trim 18V is slate black vinyl
L31/M21/GV4 is 308 / 4 speed / 3.36 Diff


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 04/06/2009 10:29:06 AM
Message:

no stripe in sandmans... kingswood styled interiors. gts only had the stripe & insert fabrics, sandman vinyl only.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 06/06/2009 7:16:45 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Jones

Nice HQ Sandy on Ebay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HQ-SANDMAN-UTE_W0QQitemZ160339060697QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item2554f3e7d9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Azure Blue is a colour you dont see very often and non black interior on a HQ Sandy

8M80TDH323787Q
EHQ68628B
6/74

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire



Rarity indeed. Thats only the second HQ Belmont Sandman ute and 3rd non-Kingswood Sandman ute pre mid-HJ I have ever seen.

The HX XU3 is the 4th only Acacia Ridge XU3 recorded as well.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 07/06/2009 10:42:34 AM
Message:

Jade Green HX Sandman Ute tags







Nick


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 11/06/2009 10:59:08 AM
Message:

Hi sandman gurus..
Went to the outlaws place in tassie on the weekend and the son has a van sitting in his to do list which looks to me like a genuine sandy. Can someone confirm?? So i can tell him he needs to get it out of the rain...

details thus -
HX8W M 70
239757-A
TRIM 1914-18V
PAINT 568-17778
L31 M21 GV4

VIN - 8M70TGJ584170X
7-77 BUILD, GVW1950 seat cap 2
white needle GTS dash
full length headlining
courtesy light switches in doors
no tyre placard
no motor or box

PICS THUS -



Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 11/06/2009 11:01:39 AM
Message:

Just noticed the column shift thingy there in the last photo. Dont know what the story is there as the tags had original rivets.


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 11/06/2009 11:21:11 AM
Message:

hi hainzy... if you say it had original rivets id say definately sandman. even with the on the tree column probably been changed at sometime... front grill is not original maybe its had a front ender? did you check the chassis? scratch the paint back make sure it is aquaris?


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 11/06/2009 11:51:01 AM
Message:

HI mate. yep chassis matched.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/06/2009 12:23:46 PM
Message:

Tags are definitely from an original Sandman unless it was destined for NZ or imported back from there.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 11/06/2009 1:01:43 PM
Message:

Thanks guys i ll let him know to do something with it before the cancer sets in. Its already getting a bit grim along the pass side gutter and other areas....


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 11/06/2009 10:57:08 PM
Message:

Found this HZ base model p/van on Ebay tonight that is advertised as a genuine Sandman. This is a perfect example of how an optioned up base model van can be mistaken for a genuine Sandman. Fairly original van, the front is obviously original to it and I think he may be fibbing about the GTS steering wheel. Not sure how he thinks the Vehicle Identification Certificate verifies it as the genuine article when Sandman is not listed as the model name?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ORIGINAL-HOLDEN-HZ-SANDMAN-PANELVAN_W0QQitemZ320382750921


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 12/06/2009 08:22:51 AM
Message:

non derated gvw. will never be able to proove it to be a sandman.

aso my Vechicle id cert does have sandman on it. My hz sandman ute is also a adel build. =)


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/06/2009 1:33:45 PM
Message:

It should be relatively easy to prove its not ie lack of headlining and interior light switch wiring.
Holden have no records that a van or ute is a Sandman so it is impossible for them to say it is unless its an Acacia Ridge example in which case there is no use getting a letter as XX7 or XU3 is there for all to see. Those letters are next to useless in my opinion as they always seem to stuff something up, which sometimes makes me wonder if its done on purpose. In recent times ive seen repeat examples of a vehicles spec listing as L33 low comp 253 where the BODY clearly says L32 (or blank) and VIN has an R and also M22 where the body plate says M20 and its a 253. These are just the ones I have seen. All Holden can do is look up their records based upon the VIN and tell you what is recorded as mechanical options, when it was built etc. They cannot tell you if the chassis number is right (or even close to right hence the ADR plate matches the others (or not)), nor can they tell you if for say a non-HQ Pagewood van the BODY plate is correct for the other two plates.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 12/06/2009 5:02:53 PM
Message:

Byron, were not talking about the authenticity letter from Holden which is a waste of paper. The vehicle identification certificate is the form (part No. 9944933 for HX) filled out by the selling dealer at the time of purchase and is normally stapled to the inside back of the owners guide, if the car is a Sandman then Sandman is usually written or typed in as the model name.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/06/2009 6:14:50 PM
Message:

Got you. You are correct, I was thinking about the letter from Holden. You are correct the owners manual/guide will normally say Sandman if it is. Except for the examples where dealers made their own Sandmans out of BO6 Kingswoods and sold them as such.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: robsvan
Replied on: 18/06/2009 08:55:06 AM
Message:

hi guys. rob from perth here. just bought a hz sandman project. ne help with a photo or photos in inside trim/dash ect for a van with trim code 63v. will also need much more advise when i start to restore the old girl... thanks to all that reply. rob


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 18/06/2009 09:09:26 AM
Message:

http://gallery.oldholden.com/Mr_Jones/HQ-Z+Interior+Codes/HZ/63+Buckskin/Kingswood/
should give you an idea about the colours and trim style.

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: sandmanxx7
Replied on: 18/06/2009 10:10:51 AM
Message:

here another little thing ive noticed over here in wa. for the licence & third party insurance (rego papers) all the "original" sandmans i have owned & seen have the model number blank. mainly because "sandman" wasnt able to be entered maybe?

eg:

make: holden

model:

body: pvan

agg: 1950

etc...

otherwise it would say "kingswood" or "belmont" even up to hzz normally i think. check your regos crew & let me know.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 18/06/2009 11:39:10 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by sandmanxx7

here another little thing ive noticed over here in wa. for the licence & third party insurance (rego papers) all the "original" sandmans i have owned & seen have the model number blank. mainly because "sandman" wasnt able to be entered maybe?

eg:

make: holden

model:

body: pvan

agg: 1950

etc...

otherwise it would say "kingswood" or "belmont" even up to hzz normally i think. check your regos crew & let me know.



Hi Drew. that was true in W.A. until about 12 months ago. I hasseled the DPI to add Sandman to the list. Just ask them to change it as its available now...

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/06/2009 6:38:27 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by sandmanxx7

here another little thing ive noticed over here in wa. for the licence & third party insurance (rego papers) all the "original" sandmans i have owned & seen have the model number blank. mainly because "sandman" wasnt able to be entered maybe?

eg:

make: holden

model:

body: pvan

agg: 1950

etc...

otherwise it would say "kingswood" or "belmont" even up to hzz normally i think. check your regos crew & let me know.




Problem is Sandman isnt really a model, like Vacationer or Drifter or Sundowner or Cobra or Plus4 or even A9X for that matter. So the model really probably should be "Holden HZ". Also the manufacturer should really be GMH. So youd have:

make: GMH

model: Holden HZ

body: pvan

Or other examples:

make: GMH

model: Holden LX Torana

body: coupe

make: GMH

model: Statesman HZ

body: sedan




_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 19/06/2009 2:16:24 PM
Message:

over here its
Make : Holden
Model : Kingswood (or sandman)
Body : Ute
year : 1982
colour : White
Tare : 1370
Agg : 2200
GVM : 2200
Cyl : 8 cyl
Fuel : pet
Insurance class : 02
Engine number : WR321xxx
VIN / Chassis : CWB 36xxxA

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: robsvan
Replied on: 22/06/2009 9:06:03 PM
Message:

hi guys, pick up my hz van project on the weekend. i am hoping it is a sandman waiting to be restored.
i will add the number and get you guys to let ne know. 06.78 hz panel van. 2000kg gvw 2 seating cap.
hz8w m 70 model 416370-a body 1939-63v trim 567-30530 paint l32 eng m20 g/box cv4 diffengine number starts with qr968**** also has nothing on rego papers under model. what do you guys think????? thanks robert w.a


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/06/2009 9:19:31 PM
Message:

Definite XX7 Sandman. Has unique GVW.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: robsvan
Replied on: 22/06/2009 9:28:06 PM
Message:

thats great news. do you think the engine is the one that should be in the van???
engine number qr968**** ? thanks robert w.a


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/06/2009 9:37:33 PM
Message:

Number is very close to right range. Is it 316370 or 316380 body number? Number will be repeated in the end of the VIN if its an Adelaide assembled van.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 22/06/2009 9:52:22 PM
Message:

416xxx fits the time frame 6/78 for an Adel body

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: robsvan
Replied on: 22/06/2009 9:57:31 PM
Message:

the number is 41679 on both plates?

robert


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/06/2009 05:53:38 AM
Message:

Sorry, 416370 or 416380 (my bad). Reason I asked is I have a partial record for 416380 with the same build configuration as yours.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 25/06/2009 6:01:51 PM
Message:

Howdee guys bought my ute 20 years ago in process of rebuilding it need help identifing if sandman or not
HJ UTE
1-76
BHJ12583 M
GVW 1860
SEATING CAP 2

8N80LF J510842 5

MODEL : HJ8WN80
BODY : 510342M
TRIM : 1886-18V
PAINT 568-15949
ENG-L20 TRANS- M20 R AXLE GV7

Terry


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 25/06/2009 7:16:33 PM
Message:

yep.
another HJ kingswood sandman ute outta Melbourne.

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/06/2009 8:44:45 PM
Message:

Certainly looks like one but impossible to tell for sure without log books. Pretty rare combo too ie 202 manual Kingswood XX7 ute.

Does it have a tyre placard and its original engine?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 25/06/2009 9:19:54 PM
Message:

Not original motor,currently 308 have to check out tyre placard,not sure whether its original as there were 2 owners before i bought it.

Terry


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 25/06/2009 11:59:11 PM
Message:

76 model 6cyl possible sandman? i too would LOVE LOVE to know the tyre placard number....

have you got any other 6cyl 76 hj sandmans recorded byron?

cheers
jason


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/06/2009 07:56:35 AM
Message:

Yes:

11/75 XX7 M20 Acacia van (1860kg);
2/76 XX7 M40 Pagewood van (1860kg);
8/76 ?? M20 Pagewood or Elizabeth van van (??);
1/76 XX7 M20 Dandenong Kingswood ute (1860kg);
5/76 XX7 M20 Dandenong Kingswood ute (1860kg) placard 9941014;
4/76 XX7 M20 Elizabeth ute (1860kg);
8/76 ?? M20 Elizabeth or Paewood van (???).

Only one placard unfortunately. The auto van was the second one I recorded, but I didnt get placard info back then.





_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 26/06/2009 7:27:57 PM
Message:

back again tyre placard # is 9941013

Terry


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 26/06/2009 8:28:23 PM
Message:

hmm. its a sandman placard. but a V8 one. very strange because its a rare placard on a HJ lid. as it can only be sandman. But its not correct for a 76 build hj. so it looks like it must have come off a hj sandman pre "76 build" or a 76 XU3 sandman...

cheers
jason


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 26/06/2009 9:18:18 PM
Message:

Plot thickens as i said not sure what happend with the ute 12 years previous to myself buying it.

Terry


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 22/07/2009 7:09:27 PM
Message:

Gday guys,

I have some numbers off a ute I was looking at buying and want to determine if its more than just a standard ute i.e. is this a sandman?

HX coupe utility A
8-76 AHX01255M
GVW 2155kg Seating cap 3

8M80LFJ535096X

Engine number: QM614863 - I didnt know where to look for the date on a 6, what might the date be?

HX8WM80
535096M
1886-67W
568-15949
ENG L20
TRANS M40
RRAXLE GV4

Chassis number: AHX01255M

Gear Box: K J


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2009 7:15:36 PM
Message:

Defintely not a Sandman. Just a Holden ute. Engine in it was originally a low comp 202 but it not the original engine as L20 is a high comp 202.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 22/07/2009 10:10:50 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Defintely not a Sandman. Just a Holden ute. Engine in it was originally a low comp 202 but it not the original engine as L20 is a high comp 202.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Well, thats good then.

The owner wouldnt sell it (wrecker), unless I paid for every individual part on it, according to their pic a part price guide and I couldnt be arsed hanging around looking all the parts up on the list....

There excuse was they "wanted parts for there customers and its a rare car", I tell you what if they sold it to me for $1500, they couldve gone and bought another ute that had more parts (i.e. complete car) with a totally rusted out crap body that nobody wanted, Geez they couldve bought two cars!! No business sense...

Makes me angry that a seemingly good car is going to get parted out...oh well.

It would be a nice ute to own. Looked to be in fairly good condition still, I think the floor pans needed replacement, though looked like rust was fairly minimal.

I noticed on the monaro parts site the vin tag, I think, for the HX is from a different car, did you just have that tag there as reference.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/07/2009 09:15:36 AM
Message:

What do you mean? The HX Kingswood van? Those are matching tags, 100% guaranteed.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 23/07/2009 11:49:28 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

What do you mean? The HX Kingswood van? Those are matching tags, 100% guaranteed.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



The problem I see is your VIN tag, which is 8N70TGH924920X and doesnt match up to the body number on the BIP which is 235718, if you say it is 100% original guarenteed, then it was clearly giving the wrong VIN number by holden and thats a big big mistake.

That would mean a difference of 689202 between the VIN and the body no.

Every thing else looks fine.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 23/07/2009 12:06:14 PM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-HZ-Sandman-utility-ute-xx7-plated_W0QQitemZ120450881636QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item1c0b6e9864&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Listed as sandman ute XX7 with seating capacity of 3 and a panelvan tag.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/07/2009 1:24:05 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZpanelvanandsedan

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

What do you mean? The HX Kingswood van? Those are matching tags, 100% guaranteed.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



The problem I see is your VIN tag, which is 8N70TGH924920X and doesnt match up to the body number on the BIP which is 235718, if you say it is 100% original guarenteed, then it was clearly giving the wrong VIN number by holden and thats a big big mistake.

That would mean a difference of 689202 between the VIN and the body no.

Every thing else looks fine.



Pagewood and Dandenong assembled HJ-HZ vans all have Elizabeth BODY plates, hence they never have matching PSN and BODY numbers - they cant as the PSN is assigned by the assembly plant and the BODY number is assigned by the plant that constructs the shell. Totally normal, and that set of plates line up perfectly with dozens I have recorded around it.

Wait till you see a Pagewood assembled post 1/70 HT or HG van. These have Elizabeth BODY and ADR plates and Pagewood VIN plate. They get the Elizabeth ADR plate as the chassis number is on the firewall when the shell is built, rather than stamped at the assembly plant like HQ-WB when the ADR tag, engine and chassis are all put together. Imagine the logistics of this? I wonder if this is one reason why the chassis number moved to the rails in HQ???

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Jim5.0
Replied on: 23/07/2009 2:03:54 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-HZ-Sandman-utility-ute-xx7-plated_W0QQitemZ120450881636QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item1c0b6e9864&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Listed as sandman ute XX7 with seating capacity of 3 and a panelvan tag.



Maybe it is a genuine Sandman van that has had a ute conversion done. It has no holes for the tonneau <SP?> hooks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If at first you dont succeed then skydiving is not for you.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 23/07/2009 3:48:06 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Jim5.0

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-HZ-Sandman-utility-ute-xx7-plated_W0QQitemZ120450881636QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item1c0b6e9864&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Listed as sandman ute XX7 with seating capacity of 3 and a panelvan tag.



Maybe it is a genuine Sandman van that has had a ute conversion done. It has no holes for the tonneau <SP?> hooks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If at first you dont succeed then skydiving is not for you.



Id be surprised with seating for three. Would be the first ever recorded.


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 23/07/2009 4:42:12 PM
Message:

That ute has a GVW of 2200kg and a seating capacity of 3, the chassis is BHZ16360B, tags are definitely from 2 different cars.

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/07/2009 4:46:54 PM
Message:

And you know what? That chassis number is spot on for the VIN and BODY tags. Impossible to luck I would guess. Leroy, did he give you the chassis number off the rails or off the ADR tag?
My guess is its a van converted to a ute and the ADR tag has been swapped.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 23/07/2009 5:58:48 PM
Message:

They sent me a pic of the tag I can pass it on if you like, as far as the number goes I thought exactly the same thing, the XX7 tag would be from a late Sept and the ADR is very early Oct. Would the XX7 have originally been 1950 or 2000kg?

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/07/2009 6:02:08 PM
Message:

2000kg for a 1978 XX7 van.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 06/08/2009 10:20:53 PM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-Panelvan-HQ-Windowless-V8-saginaw-9-Sandman_W0QQitemZ350236697577QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item518bbbe3e9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Certainly looks to be a genuine Sandy, Burgundy is also a rare colour.

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 03/09/2009 4:22:39 PM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-Sandman-Panel-Van_W0QQitemZ120464000238QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item1c0c36c4ee&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

a sandy around that GVM changeover period.

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: rjmhx
Replied on: 27/10/2009 9:24:29 PM
Message:

Gday need some help with I.D of van please.Model HX8WM70
Body no. 214918-A Trim 1890-18v GVW 1950kg Seating Capacity 2 Date 11/76 L 32 M 20 GV7 Long skinny plate reads 8M70RG J548920X
Any help would be great. Thanks


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 27/10/2009 11:03:28 PM
Message:

Its a HX XX7 Sandman van, originally Mandarin red with slate black trim. Built in the Elizabeth plant. Was originally a 253 4spd with 3.55 diff.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rjmhx
Replied on: 28/10/2009 06:52:43 AM
Message:

Thanks for that , i have just finished restoring this sandman and glad to hear its original.


Reply author: sanchez
Replied on: 01/11/2009 6:59:35 PM
Message:

can anyone help with a missing vin tag for a hx ute made in adelaide


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 18/11/2009 9:16:34 PM
Message:

Ok she arrived today, needs lots of work to bring her back to life.

Heres the details if you do not already have them;



[




Reply author: Monaro202
Replied on: 19/11/2009 11:14:11 AM
Message:

q for byron...
HQ P van
complianced
3/74 build, 2 seater , 4850GMV
PSN
8m70RDH8 (could be H3)
body tag
80270QR, (No XX7)
30B trim (black),
salamanca red,
M20
No tyre placard, but has full gts options, No decals? ever fitted (in original paint) were these a deleteable option?, could this be a Sydney built sandy? from what I can determin it could be, but owner (not original) says it definatly isnt, as was told this by original owner... also no hand books...
thanks in advance
Kevin

HOLDEN The Great Way to Move


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/11/2009 3:26:50 PM
Message:

Kevin

Could easily be one. If the VIN has H8 its a Pagewood build (hence no XX7).
Decals were not factory fitted in HQ, they were either dealer fitted or not fitted. I recently got GM-H paperwork showing this. Im not updating the website at this stage as I am working on another Sandman "project" where all the new info is going. Will take a while as I have to gather all relevant GM-H paperwork first.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Monaro202
Replied on: 19/11/2009 7:38:42 PM
Message:

thanks byron..


HOLDEN The Great Way to Move


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 22/11/2009 11:11:29 PM
Message:

Ive been told a few different things regarding my HJ Sandman van.It is Deville Blue in colour.

a: 1 has told me it should have the stripe across the tailgate and another says it should have SANDMAN in running writing (same as side sticker).
b: 1 has told me that stickers should be white and another says black.

So which is true?

Thanks


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 23/11/2009 10:56:10 AM
Message:

Just picked up another XX7 Sandman on the weekend...
minimal rust
full matching numbers original engine...
Built 11/78
Gvw 1950
Acacia built XX7
Paint 30526 (Caribbean Turquoise)
Trim 63v
eng L31 308
box M41 T400
dif Gu4 3.08

tyre placard 9946866
Power steering
GTS mirrors and full gts interior..

Interestingly enough
The ute seems to have factory fitted GTS guards
Also the spare wheel is a N67 alloy wheel..so i am guessing it came from factory with N67s as ute is original except for the Simmons wheels that were fitted in the early 90s ...

I am thinking of adding sandman decals to it but am unsure of which colour would suit..


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 23/11/2009 11:14:02 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by AGRO

Ive been told a few different things regarding my HJ Sandman van.It is Deville Blue in colour.

a: 1 has told me it should have the stripe across the tailgate and another says it should have SANDMAN in running writing (same as side sticker).
b: 1 has told me that stickers should be white and another says black.

So which is true?

Thanks



HQ & HJ Sandman had the stripe across the tailgate as well as the small Sandman script above it. The HQ & HJ decals were white or black depending on body colour. This could change at any time, AFAIK the HQ & HJ decals were supplied with the car & then fitted at the dealership.

HX & HZ got the larger lettering across the tailgate, in the later style font.

Dr Terry


Reply author: GeeR
Replied on: 23/11/2009 3:42:33 PM
Message:

vanman - that sounds like an awesome buy.

___________________________
WTB:
- HQ-Z standard rims
- HQ coupe front windscreen mouldings
- HQ ute antique brown trim - any pieces!


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 23/11/2009 9:20:06 PM
Message:

VANMAN - Nice score!! I have a carribean turquoise sandman. The decals are dark blue, light blue and white. Have a look at my thread below.
http://www.fastlane.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19235


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 23/11/2009 9:25:20 PM
Message:

Ah I stand corrected by myself.. Just had a double check and theyre actually 3 different blues...


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 23/11/2009 10:28:22 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry

HQ & HJ Sandman had the stripe across the tailgate as well as the small Sandman script above it. The HQ & HJ decals were white or black depending on body colour. This could change at any time, AFAIK the HQ & HJ decals were supplied with the car & then fitted at the dealership.

HX & HZ got the larger lettering across the tailgate, in the later style font.

Dr Terry



So how do i find out what it should be?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 23/11/2009 10:38:52 PM
Message:

Hi Argo. You may have spoken to me through ebay. But on your colour they should be white. Black on a dark blue just would not suit.

VANMAN - if you happen to want to sell it let me know! Or if you want some stripes also let me know.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: Monaro202
Replied on: 24/11/2009 11:25:34 AM
Message:

yes have to agree with HZute, there is a HJ Sandman locally in the same colour as yours, it has had a ground up rebuild & has the white GTO style stripes on the side & tail gate, with white sandman decals, it looks very good, I can also recall a HJ in mandarine red with the same white stripes getting around back in the 80s, was it possible to order the red sandmans with white stripes? or were there set colour combinations. I think a pur-pull sandy with white stripes would look quite good.

HOLDEN The Great Way to Move


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/11/2009 4:18:38 PM
Message:

I have the HQ and HJ paint and stripe colours out of GMH documentation (thanks to Warren), so let me know the TRIM line and build date and I can help.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 25/11/2009 10:54:49 PM
Message:

dont happen to have any info on the hx/hz combos?


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 25/11/2009 10:57:46 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

I have the HQ and HJ paint and stripe colours out of GMH documentation (thanks to Warren), so let me know the TRIM line and build date and I can help.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Trim is 1898 19V
Build is 5/75
Thanks


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 25/11/2009 10:59:46 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

Hi Argo. You may have spoken to me through ebay. But on your colour they should be white. Black on a dark blue just would not suit.

Cheers
Jason



May have.I did message someone from Tazzie in regards to the stripes and getting "Sandman" (in running writing) on the tailgate instead of the stripe.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 27/11/2009 11:05:14 AM
Message:

I have some additional HX and HZ info, and also some later HZ colour charts. But I have been writing HQ and HJ stuff initially and will have answers on HX and HZ when I get closer to it.
Agro, I dont have the info with me right now, but will look for you in the next few days.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 27/11/2009 10:19:37 PM
Message:

Thanks Byron

HJ Sandman Pano, HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 28/11/2009 11:33:35 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

dont happen to have any info on the hx/hz combos?



Here ya go Jason....

HZ Sandman 1979

dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
dy3-yellow / orange / red
dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue

Ashley Grey 30857 - 1948 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Atlantis Blue Met. 30525 - 1934 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Aztec Silver Met. 30851 - 1952 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Dark Carmine Met. 30852 - 1953 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Firethorn 10981 - 1189 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Flamenco Red 30517 - 1926 dy3-yellow / orange / red
Jasmine Yellow 30518 - 1927 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Malachite Met. 30853 - 1954 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mirage Blue Met. 30854 - 1955 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Mistral Grey 30855 - 1956 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mojave Beige 30858 - 1949 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Nocturne Blue Met. 30856 - 1957 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Palais White 30521 - 1930 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Panama Green 30522 - 1931 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Saddle Tan Met. 30528 - 1937 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Sage Green Met. 30967 - 1958 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Sandlewood Met. 30583 - 1945 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Tuxedo Black (MK.2) 30861 - 1959 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 29/11/2009 10:38:20 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

dont happen to have any info on the hx/hz combos?



Here ya go Jason....

HZ Sandman 1979

dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
dy3-yellow / orange / red
dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue

Ashley Grey 30857 - 1948 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Atlantis Blue Met. 30525 - 1934 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Aztec Silver Met. 30851 - 1952 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Dark Carmine Met. 30852 - 1953 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Firethorn 10981 - 1189 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Flamenco Red 30517 - 1926 dy3-yellow / orange / red
Jasmine Yellow 30518 - 1927 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Malachite Met. 30853 - 1954 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mirage Blue Met. 30854 - 1955 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Mistral Grey 30855 - 1956 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mojave Beige 30858 - 1949 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Nocturne Blue Met. 30856 - 1957 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Palais White 30521 - 1930 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Panama Green 30522 - 1931 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Saddle Tan Met. 30528 - 1937 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Sage Green Met. 30967 - 1958 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Sandlewood Met. 30583 - 1945 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Tuxedo Black (MK.2) 30861 - 1959 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue




THANKYOU VERY MUCH.

Byron. I look foward to seeing what else you come up with the stripes.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 30/11/2009 07:51:19 AM
Message:

If a van is Adelaide built and it has HX8W N 70 on its compliance, is this a Sandman OR what is the reason behind putting the spaces each side of the "N"?

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 30/11/2009 08:12:27 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by AGRO

If a van is Adelaide built and it has HX8W N 70 on its compliance, is this a Sandman OR what is the reason behind putting the spaces each side of the "N"?

This is just one of many variations in the way they stamp the plates at different times at different plants.

HX8WN70 is an HX Kingswood van so it cant be a Sandman. A Sandman is based on an 8WM70 in HX & HZ.

Dr Terry

_______________________________________
There are only 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. Those who wonder what happened.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/11/2009 1:09:08 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

dont happen to have any info on the hx/hz combos?



Here ya go Jason....

HZ Sandman 1979

dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
dy3-yellow / orange / red
dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue

Ashley Grey 30857 - 1948 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Atlantis Blue Met. 30525 - 1934 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Aztec Silver Met. 30851 - 1952 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Dark Carmine Met. 30852 - 1953 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Firethorn 10981 - 1189 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Flamenco Red 30517 - 1926 dy3-yellow / orange / red
Jasmine Yellow 30518 - 1927 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Malachite Met. 30853 - 1954 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mirage Blue Met. 30854 - 1955 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Mistral Grey 30855 - 1956 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mojave Beige 30858 - 1949 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Nocturne Blue Met. 30856 - 1957 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Palais White 30521 - 1930 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Panama Green 30522 - 1931 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Saddle Tan Met. 30528 - 1937 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Sage Green Met. 30967 - 1958 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Sandlewood Met. 30583 - 1945 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Tuxedo Black (MK.2) 30861 - 1959 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue




THANKYOU VERY MUCH.

Byron. I look foward to seeing what else you come up with the stripes.

Cheers
Jason



I have a lot of info, but it conflicts. Will email you once its sorted.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/11/2009 3:40:17 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by vanman

Just picked up another XX7 Sandman on the weekend...
minimal rust
full matching numbers original engine...
Built 11/78
Gvw 1950
Acacia built XX7
Paint 30526 (Caribbean Turquoise)
Trim 63v
eng L31 308
box M41 T400
dif Gu4 3.08

tyre placard 9946866
Power steering
GTS mirrors and full gts interior..

Interestingly enough
The ute seems to have factory fitted GTS guards
Also the spare wheel is a N67 alloy wheel..so i am guessing it came from factory with N67s as ute is original except for the Simmons wheels that were fitted in the early 90s ...

I am thinking of adding sandman decals to it but am unsure of which colour would suit..




Vanman, can you email me the ID details for the Register. Pretty rare with auto. I only have a handful recorded, mostly on utes like yours. Auto vans are pretty damn rare.

11/78 will be N67 wheels for sure. 18/9/78 was the date N67 replaced N66 in the HZ ordering procedure.

1935 (Carribean Turquoise) should have had DX5 which is Bright Blue / Blue Green / Dark Blue by the 7/78 revision HZ ordering procedure. There is a revision of this page listed for 10/78 but Im not sure what was changed. Possibly the removal/addition of a few trim codes, not sure about the stripes as to whether they changed or not at that time.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 01/12/2009 9:41:00 PM
Message:

Thankyou Byron. Not a prob. These things take time.

Im my tyre placard hunt. I have worked out what the 76 build year XX7 6cyl HJ sandman van tyre placard number is. Had a bloke call me today with a van with the original interior. It matches the 76 V8 xx7 placards also.

On another not i had another bloke ring me today with a very rare coloured sandman. It was a HZ Van. He said it was not flamingo red but a brighter red. Cant remember exactly what he said. I will be talking to him again so i will be sure to let you know. But he wanted some HZ stripes from us. He was told that the correct colour combo for this bright red was orange, brown, dark brown. YUCK! it was a very late built sandman. He said its a 79 build. (will find out more). Maybe they had excess of the orange and brown combo kits left over so they used them up.... He is doing ever nut and bolt to factory so wants to make sure he gets it correct.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 01/12/2009 10:08:45 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by AGRO

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

Hi Argo. You may have spoken to me through ebay. But on your colour they should be white. Black on a dark blue just would not suit.

Cheers
Jason



May have.I did message someone from Tazzie in regards to the stripes and getting "Sandman" (in running writing) on the tailgate instead of the stripe.



Just wondering how you went with this Jason??

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 01/12/2009 10:16:26 PM
Message:

Gday, Mate im curtin they should be white. BUT. There is two different types of sandman pillar decals i have seen. Some have been all white (see this on a NOS set) some have been black and white. Basically white with a black outline.

Your tailgate i believe should be just the square box. No sandman logo etc.

I can show you some pics of the pillar decal im talking about if you like. Just drop me a email.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 01/12/2009 10:21:38 PM
Message:

Email sent.
Thanks

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 03/12/2009 08:21:36 AM
Message:

Byron i will send you pics of id plates...

Jason do you make "DX5 which is Bright Blue / Blue Green / Dark Blue"

cheers

Carl


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 03/12/2009 11:01:17 PM
Message:

Gday Carl, Yes mate we will be doing that one. That colour combo prob wont be dont till the new year.
You after a set? Its goof to get an idea on what people want. With pre orders etc. Gives us an idea on how many need to be printed. We are selling 10 times more red, orage, yellow than any other colour combo.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 05/12/2009 01:59:47 AM
Message:

quote:
On another not i had another bloke ring me today with a very rare coloured sandman. It was a HZ Van. He said it was not flamingo red but a brighter red. Cant remember exactly what he said. I will be talking to him again so i will be sure to let you know. But he wanted some HZ stripes from us. He was told that the correct colour combo for this bright red was orange, brown, dark brown.


The brighter red would be 1189 Firethorn Red which is the bright red also used on the Commodores. Should have had DY6 decals.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 05/12/2009 08:13:48 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

quote:
On another not i had another bloke ring me today with a very rare coloured sandman. It was a HZ Van. He said it was not flamingo red but a brighter red. Cant remember exactly what he said. I will be talking to him again so i will be sure to let you know. But he wanted some HZ stripes from us. He was told that the correct colour combo for this bright red was orange, brown, dark brown.


The brighter red would be 1189 Firethorn Red which is the bright red also used on the Commodores. Should have had DY6 decals.



blues onto a red car? that would be horrible..... lol.

this bloke told me also that there was one ever 3 of them made this colour. true i dont know? I thought the colour he ment started with a M.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 05/12/2009 5:20:35 PM
Message:

DY6 is mostly purple and plum with only the border being dark blue, purple and plum goes better with red than the browns would.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 06/12/2009 10:19:46 AM
Message:

yes well thats true. browns would look rather different. I thought it was a bit strange when he mentoned it.


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 06/12/2009 10:58:20 PM
Message:

Hey guys, I just came across a HX 8WM70 all other numbers point to it being a sandman, Im going back tomorrow to have another look.

One question though... The GTS guard flutes are weld-ins however I was under the impression that all guard flutes were stamped. Can I have some input on this please?

Thanks.


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 06/12/2009 11:20:54 PM
Message:

Being an HX no GTS guards were factory fitted.

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 07/12/2009 08:50:04 AM
Message:

Ok cheers thanks Leroy. Bloody Holden, the beauty of being unique at the frustrated expense of car lovers in the future. If it wasnt for the hard work in researching by many of you here one would be hard pressed to know what car you were buying. :)


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/12/2009 09:04:18 AM
Message:

If you are fortunate itll be a unique-to-Sandman trim code for HX. Otherwise look for evidence of rear headlining, door courtesy switches and reduced GVW (if XX7).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 07/12/2009 09:27:20 AM
Message:

Headling has been removed, but was installed throughout. Trim code is 18Y, courtesy light buttons are there, GVW is 1950.

Ill get the numbers for you as it may be another one you can add to your spreadsheet.

Cheers.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/12/2009 09:50:33 AM
Message:

18V trim code on a HOLDEN means Sandman in HX. 18V is a Kingswood trim, but in Australian delivered HOLDEN ute/van only Sandman got it. Normal HOLDEN were 19V if black trim was specified.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 14/12/2009 7:46:54 PM
Message:

quote:
Vanman, can you email me the ID details for the Register. Pretty rare with auto. I only have a handful recorded, mostly on utes like yours. Auto vans are pretty damn rare.

11/78 will be N67 wheels for sure. 18/9/78 was the date N67 replaced N66 in the HZ ordering procedure.

1935 (Carribean Turquoise) should have had DX5 which is Bright Blue / Blue Green / Dark Blue by the 7/78 revision HZ ordering procedure. There is a revision of this page listed for 10/78 but Im not sure what was changed. Possibly the removal/addition of a few trim codes, not sure about the stripes as to whether they changed or not at that time.



Byron

I have sent "id plate" pics to holden@monaroparts.com

quote:
Gday Carl, Yes mate we will be doing that one. That colour combo prob wont be dont till the new year.
You after a set? Its goof to get an idea on what people want. With pre orders etc. Gives us an idea on how many need to be printed. We are selling 10 times more red, orage, yellow than any other colour combo.

Cheers
Jason



Jason put me down for DX5 which is Bright Blue / Blue Green / Dark Blue

cheers vanman


Reply author: freestyler1
Replied on: 15/12/2009 12:33:00 AM
Message:

Jason

Looked through other posts... couldnt fing...
What sort of coin you doing hx/hz decal sets for?

Cheers Allan


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 15/12/2009 7:19:06 PM
Message:

Not a prob vannman. Will put your name down. Drop me a email to j_ackland(at)aapt(dot)net(dot)au. That way i have your email.

Allan. They are $420 + $10 post. (fastlane members i will do post for free) We dont have all colours printed as yet. Reason for this is this time of year its so hot and we need the temp to be around 10deg to get them perfect. So days are limited.
They are ofcourse hand screen printed. Not digital printed or 3 layers of vinyl. So they will last for years and years. Digital ones you will be lucky to get 2 years out of them before they start to fade. The originals where also screen printed. So they are as per original.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 16/12/2009 11:00:33 PM
Message:

Since we are on the topic of decals etc. I have a few questions for the Sandman gurus.

I have a May/1976 HJ Sandman - paint is 567-15944 Deauville Blue Metallic. I am trying to determine what the original decal set may have been, because I have been finding a lot of HJs that have either the
Wheel arch black stripes or some with the 2 color tail flash decal.

I though the HJ only had the wheel arch stripes and a black block on the tailgate. Could I please get some clarification on this.

Thanks


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/12/2009 09:42:33 AM
Message:

Blocker. Not near my paint reference material. What is the GMH paint code for Deauville blue (ie TRIM line)?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 17/12/2009 09:59:51 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Blocker. Not near my paint reference material. What is the GMH paint code for Deauville blue (ie TRIM line)?


Trim = 1898-19V
Paint = 567-15944

Reference from my plate.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/12/2009 1:06:51 PM
Message:

Ok, just wanted to check for you. According to the HJ ordering procedure dated 1/3/76 Deuville blue (1898) on a van has XY5 white stripes with only 19V or 60A trim recommended. AFAIK all HJ had the same stripes, ie all black (standard) or all white (option XY5), sculpted on the sides, plus across the tailgate.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 17/12/2009 2:01:58 PM
Message:

Byron thank you very much for the info. Since I do not have the XY5 option stamped on the plates I can only assume that I need to add Black wheel arch strips and black block on tailgate.

Thanks again for your knowledge and assistance.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/12/2009 3:27:48 PM
Message:

No, XY5 would never appear on the BODY plate. XY5 was the standard stripe for an 1898 coloured HJ. The HJ ordering procedure lists it next to 1898. What In not 100% certain on though is if you could actually order black stripes. From the factory, who knows? But as all HJ stripes were dealer fitted I suppose you could simply ask for black stripes or none at all.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 17/12/2009 11:12:19 PM
Message:

Byron. The strange thing i have found with the 1898 paint HJ before is the small sandman decal on the pillar behind the doors. I have seen them as white. BUT i have also seen them and have a pic of what i was told to be 100% original pillar decal that was white with a black outline. It still sticks out on the blue paint but looks much better than the plain white. But i have never seen a NOS kit with these decals in it. The decals measured 100% correct to be originals also......


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/12/2009 06:07:37 AM
Message:

Its not mentioned on the ordering procedure at all. Will see what else is there.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 18/12/2009 07:55:17 AM
Message:

I will send you the pic.


Reply author: RAM 77
Replied on: 19/12/2009 11:14:42 PM
Message:

Hi all just new here so go easy. Just bought original HZ Sandman panelvan which Byron has given the green light. Problem is the side windows, Did any Sandman leave the factory with windows??? Also original colour is Supermint Metalic. What "sandman decals/colours are common with this colour?


Reply author: RAM 77
Replied on: 19/12/2009 11:16:19 PM
Message:

That ewas supposed to read Supermint Green Metalic.


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 19/12/2009 11:29:24 PM
Message:

White, Blue, Dark Blue for Supermint on a HZ.


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 19/12/2009 11:34:50 PM
Message:

AS per this van:


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/12/2009 09:24:18 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by RAM 77

Hi all just new here so go easy. Just bought original HZ Sandman panelvan which Byron has given the green light. Problem is the side windows, Did any Sandman leave the factory with windows??? Also original colour is Supermint Metalic. What "sandman decals/colours are common with this colour?



Ive got a production broadcast sheet for a HQ Sandman with side windows listed.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: RAM 77
Replied on: 20/12/2009 9:18:31 PM
Message:

Thanks for the photo. Looks Great. Front Spoiler standard on HZ Sandman??
Also twin exhaust?? Byron does that indicate that it was possible the windows could be factory?? they have been done really well. The van has 400k on the clock but in really good nick. Im doing the whole bare metal thing then, going to tidy up the inside and the motor. Hopefully get her looking like the above shot. By the way was that the only colour decals for supermint green metalic??


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/12/2009 06:15:05 AM
Message:

Quite possible they are factory fitted. Or they could be aftermarket or dealer fitted.

Yes DY4 is the only one listed one the July 1978 HZ ordering procedure. Its listed as white/blue-green/dark blue but the blue-green is listed as blue in later GMH documentation.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 21/12/2009 3:25:28 PM
Message:

If you are going to the trouble of a back to metal restoration, get the windows welded back in as it looks heaps better at the same time.

Front spoiler standard on HZ.


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 21/12/2009 3:39:04 PM
Message:

Heres a bit of a sleaper on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-HZ-V8-Sandman-Panel-Van_W0QQitemZ130353580098QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item1e59adc842

Nice resto project by the look of it. Great colour for an HZ in Windsor Blue. Quilpie is a long way from anywhere though. Could be worth the trip if someone is keen enough.


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 21/12/2009 3:52:39 PM
Message:

Youre right. I saw this last night, looks like a bit of work! But wow what a trip to get it down to Adelaide where I am!


Reply author: RAM 77
Replied on: 21/12/2009 5:07:11 PM
Message:

Cheers for the info lads. I plan to lose the windows in the resto. Any detail on the twin exhaust??
Currently single exhaust LHS. Also is auto at the moment but I plan to put it back to 4 speed.
Still has original side mirrors with black fascia etc. Cant stop looking at her.. Im stoked.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/12/2009 12:17:22 PM
Message:

Here is a HZ Sandman van just appeared on Ebay. Needs work but its a proper Acacia built (undisputed) example. Only a 253 and a van and a HZ so it might go for an attractive price. Its the earliest HZ Acacia Ridge Sandman I have recorded too.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-HZ-V8-Sandman-Panel-Van_W0QQitemZ130353580098QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item1e59adc842

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 03/01/2010 3:36:54 PM
Message:

Who let the Sandman thread go to the second page? :)

Byron, I have another one for your records. Its an Absinth Yellow HX Sandman built Elizabeth 4.2Lt.

Guy up the road is selling it (in Adelaide). Its in fair condition, the only thing noteworthy about the car is it used to be the local FM radio stations promo cars.








Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 03/01/2010 3:48:46 PM
Message:

Good one. That is a new one for the register.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 04/01/2010 08:32:02 AM
Message:

Any pics of the body?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 04/01/2010 08:59:10 AM
Message:

I could go down again this week and take a couple snapshots. The car has been in at least 2 accidents. Passenger side front quarter dinged, Passenger mid section bent in (gutter rail is mostly fiberglass both sides).

Im after a parts car, but this one had no usable parts for me.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 15/01/2010 10:50:47 PM
Message:

a few more IDs for the sandman database
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SANDMAN-WINDOWLESS-PANEL-VAN-HZ_W0QQitemZ260537200233QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item3ca93a2e69

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SANDMAN-PANELVAN_W0QQitemZ260536685991QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item3ca93255a7

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: E74
Replied on: 16/01/2010 08:14:31 AM
Message:

I bought this last week, I dont know shoot about holden numbers, just that it was the right colour combo for me, dispute it if you like, I am convinced and so is everyone else I have spoken to.
FYI its the one advertised in issue 307 Unique Cars.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
Message:

There is no dispute to be had. Its an obvious XX7 HZ Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 16/01/2010 08:51:15 AM
Message:

Congrats on a nice Sandman find.

Originally a 308, 4 speed manual.
Built in Adelaide.
Paint code is Palais White (nice!) so that would be DY2 stripes (Orange/Bright Blue/Blue Green). Unless the vehicle was ordered without stripes, which was common in the late HZ models like yours.

Would like to see some pics of the car when you get a chance.


Reply author:
Replied on: 16/01/2010 10:48:29 AM
Message:

Hi

I can get a HX Ambulance (qld), are these worth getting, it has two doors on the drivers side and one on the passenger side, just wondering if its worth grabbing he is asking 1200


Old Holdens Can Be Restored To There Former Glory ,Wish i Could Be :(


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 16/01/2010 10:51:39 AM
Message:

WOW. Thats my dream Sandman find! 100% how I want a HZ Sandman, XX7, Trim, Paint, Eng, trans, everything.

Want to sell it? haha let me know!!!!


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 16/01/2010 10:53:10 AM
Message:

Relic, to someone wanting to do up an old ambo yes. As for worth big $$, I dont think so. Seems cheap though if all the bits are there.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/01/2010 11:15:17 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

WOW. Thats my dream Sandman find! 100% how I want a HZ Sandman, XX7, Trim, Paint, Eng, trans, everything.

Want to sell it? haha let me know!!!!



Almost my favourite as well. Only things Id change would be to make it a ute, change the box to an M41 and add factory air. Nice combo though.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 16/01/2010 12:20:37 PM
Message:

Here is a early 173 4sp HQ Sandman van for your records Byron.



Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 16/01/2010 1:35:27 PM
Message:

Absinth, isnt that a 253 Sandman ?

An 80270 is a V8 Belmont Panel Van. The body plate is blank in the ENG spot because it has the base (non-optional) engine, which for this car is a 253 V8. The M20 is there, because an M15 was the standard TRANS, making an M20 optional.

Am I reading the plate incorrectly ?

Dr Terry


_______________________________________
There are only 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. Those who wonder what happened.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 16/01/2010 2:02:13 PM
Message:

Oops, youre right. I overlooked the model number as I was more looking at the blank eng. and thought 173.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/01/2010 2:14:22 PM
Message:

Ive had that one recorded for a while.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 16/01/2010 3:59:54 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

quote:
Originally posted by HZute-efi-VS5L

WOW. Thats my dream Sandman find! 100% how I want a HZ Sandman, XX7, Trim, Paint, Eng, trans, everything.

Want to sell it? haha let me know!!!!



Almost my favourite as well. Only things Id change would be to make it a ute, change the box to an M41 and add factory air. Nice combo though.


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Its something about the white HZs that I like. I would love a ute but I already have a Ute. So thinking that a van would be the go. Ah will keep on dreaming!


Reply author: 77sandman
Replied on: 16/01/2010 4:21:35 PM
Message:

hey guys
may i ask why some have xx7 or xu3 stamped on the id plates but the ones that
dont have em stamp there are still classed as sandmans???
Cheers
Karl


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/01/2010 6:14:14 PM
Message:

Yes. Only Acacia Ridge plant stamped thevehicle option package on the BODY plant. Other 3 x plants didnt.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: 77sandman
Replied on: 16/01/2010 7:30:09 PM
Message:

Ahhh the beauty of it ay. Bloody holdens are shocking with there records


Reply author: E74
Replied on: 16/01/2010 8:58:03 PM
Message:

Thanks guys, (Sigh of releif)I know nothing about Holdens but I did know I wanted a white HZ Sandman, I sorta panicked and just bought it cause of the colour combo and just hoped that what the guy was saying was true.
If you guys ever want to know anything about Mopars, US or Aussie just give me a holla as I DO know about those...


Regards,

Darren


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 16/01/2010 9:16:21 PM
Message:

You dont happen to know how many 318 V8 770 Chargers were made?


Reply author: E74
Replied on: 16/01/2010 9:36:10 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

You dont happen to know how many 318 V8 770 Chargers were made?



Fairly broad question there, though you just might find the answer here http://www.valiantinfobase.com/


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 18/01/2010 3:04:06 PM
Message:

Hey, I wonder if someone could provide the paint code for Tuxedo Black in HX series please.

Thanks.


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 18/01/2010 3:25:56 PM
Message:

Tuxedo Black Mk I = 15991

Dr Terry.

_______________________________________
There are only 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. Those who wonder what happened.


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 18/01/2010 4:22:00 PM
Message:

theres a red hj sandman on ebay at the moment, bit of a wreck but looks a very original car
it has what appears to be black painted stripes on cowl and nosecone similar to a gts and posibly would have been on the bonnet as well (which is not in any photos)does any one know if this an option on some hj sandmans?

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 18/01/2010 4:24:39 PM
Message:

160395199728 ebay item number
cheers
T-Dog

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 18/01/2010 4:40:56 PM
Message:

To my knowledge that bonnet black-out wasnt a factory option but it wouldnt be too difficult for the average painter to do. You just mask along the bonnet ridges & put a second mask for the thin stripe.

Its just a copy of an HX GTS paint scheme.

Dr Terry


_______________________________________
There are only 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. Those who wonder what happened.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/01/2010 4:41:31 PM
Message:

That is a pretty original van, but the bonnet blackout isnt.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 18/01/2010 5:10:53 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

That is a pretty original van, but the bonnet blackout isnt.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Plenty of original rust as well.... check out the size of those side windows.....

Nice colour, Mandarine Red with black trim and neutral headlining, it is identical to my old HJ Sandman...except that one still has its roof....

Lot of work for two grand, youd have to really want it and its only a 253. Note the original Silver dash fascia.

Byron, the HQ and HJ colour charts I sent are apparently blank on the back, model availability is written under the colour on them.

Do you have any info on the black vs silver dash fascias on the HJ Sandman, I am still of the belief that black was non Sandman optional GTS dash and silver for Sandman but there seems to be a lot of black fascias in what appear to be Sandmans??????


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 18/01/2010 8:10:09 PM
Message:

Ive always believed that the HJ GTS had silver dacia and the sandmans got a black facia (standard)

But this is not a researched thing. Just something I have noticed over time.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/01/2010 9:05:30 PM
Message:

The HJ Production Option availability documents dated Oct 75 for XX7 and Jan 76 for XU3 simply list U17 - Cluster Instument assembly. There is no mention of any special fascia. I also looked at the HJ ordering procedure "Special packages" date 2/75 and again there is no mention of any special fascia.
The early HJ Parts catalogue only lists the two fascias (floor and column shift) for Type 4 dash so that means GTS and Sandman were the same early on (Silver??). The part stays the same for GTS in the later version of the catalogue but the rest that got the type 4 dash had different numbers dependant upon whether the were M and N or P coded luxury level? The later M and N p/n is different to the HX fascia as well (where GTS and Sandman are the same again). So this all tells me the early HJ Sandmans had GTS fascia but later Belmont, Holden and Kingswood that got a type 4 dash had a different fascia, and this is probably the black one Jason is talking about. I suppose the assumption is this happened at the same time the HJ Premier and LS with GTS dash got a unique fascia?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 18/01/2010 9:16:58 PM
Message:

FWIW

All the Holden released sheets and promos that I have shows silver fascia from HJ through HX. I have not seen a black fascia from these models on any ads, fly sheets or promo material.

I have uploaded some here http://tinyurl.com/ye5s95g


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/01/2010 9:29:42 PM
Message:

Has anyone got a copy of the later HJ Sandman brochure? Does it show the dash?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 18/01/2010 9:53:51 PM
Message:

Byron, if you look at my link above, and check the 2nd last image on that list - HZ. Is the indicator stalk unique to the HZ series? This also has a silver fascia.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/01/2010 10:04:01 PM
Message:

Ill have a better look at my original brochure, but that looks like a HX dash. My guess is the HZ brochure cars were built during HX and hence had a HX dash. The red ute on the HX brochure was built during HJ production and has the wrong trim for a HX Sandman (it has 19V black not 18V slate).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 18/01/2010 10:06:26 PM
Message:

Andrew, the HZ brochure actually has a HX Sandman pictured. They fitted a HZ console, painted the mirrors, fitted a twin headlight front + spoiler and stuck a RTS badge on the tailgate for the photo shoot.


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 18/01/2010 10:18:29 PM
Message:

I know what you mean. From Holdens perspective why build a full production car of the new series when they can represent the new model from existing stock.

I find this stuff intriguing.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 18/01/2010 10:53:07 PM
Message:

The other thing with the dash facias are:

HJ black or silver had high beam in the warning lights below clock and a red warning light for the brakes. (failure and park brake in the one light)
HX had the high beam warning light in the speedo. and a red "brake" warning light and a blank red warning light.
HZ had the red "brake" warn light and also the "park brake" red warning light. High beam stayed in the speedo.

So white needle HJ and HX speedos are also different.

I have seen a few HJ GTS dash facias that were black with the high beam in the warning lights. (these a quite rare and hard to find) I may have a couple around here somewhere! Will have to go for a dig through my crap.........


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 18/01/2010 11:32:37 PM
Message:

HJ is easy to pick over HX even if the warning lights are missing. HJ had the infill panel over the left vent in Sandman and for GTS the infill panel was cut out with a saw for the vent to be fitted. In HX the dash was factory molded without the infill panel and also had an infill for the wiper switch hole for Sandman, on GTS they use the hole for the wiper dwell. This change and the warning light change would be the reason for the different parts numbers for HJ and HX GTS dashes.

If you look at the silver dash on the Ebay HJ you can see the infill panel still in place, although someone has drilled a hole in it to fit a aftermarket gauge.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/01/2010 08:19:12 AM
Message:

I just counted the Sandmans on the register. It reached 300 this morning with a ute sent to me by Adam. Keep em coming!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 19/01/2010 1:33:58 PM
Message:

Have you got this one? Chamois ute
hx 01/77
ahx2210 a
g.v.w-1860kg
seat cap- 2


hx8wm80
body- 222836-a
trim-1887-18v
paint-568 15950
eng-L32
gbox-M20
diff- gv7


tire placard- 9942991

VIN tag missing

Nick


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/01/2010 3:18:04 PM
Message:

Yes I have that one, but the chassis number is missing a digit and as you say the PSN is missing.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 19/01/2010 6:13:54 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

I just counted the Sandmans on the register. It reached 300 this morning with a ute sent to me by Adam. Keep em coming!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Sorry I was going to send a disc with all the pic I have. Will do that tonight and send tomorrow.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 19/01/2010 6:16:28 PM
Message:

I will not leave this up too long, I dont want it to clog the thread but I wanted to show/share what I am working on.

A web based color selector for the Sandman. The easy part is done, now on to the scripting.


They are only sample colors, I have 10 so far and many more to do. Once the scripts are written I will do a best attempt color match.
The big plan will be to add the decal color sets too.


Reply author: hzsandman
Replied on: 19/01/2010 10:13:32 PM
Message:

Love it Andrew


Reply author: we wreck 81837s only
Replied on: 19/01/2010 10:17:39 PM
Message:

you need to do it somehow like the FC boys do it, try this link;

http://www.fefcholden.org.au/techinfo/painter/index.html

"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 24/01/2010 6:22:27 PM
Message:

Hi, I am a new poster here. Just wondering if this hx ute is a sandman? 8WM80rgh9******
8WM80xr trim 1898-18v 10/76

Hope it is cause I just bought it.


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 24/01/2010 6:24:21 PM
Message:

Oh meant to add M20 L32 GV7


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 24/01/2010 6:46:17 PM
Message:

Hi wbute, welcome to the forums.

Your numbers look good for a Sandman.
4.2lt 1977 built in Sydney. Trim code of 18v a helpful indicator too. Deauville Blue Metallic is a nice colour - DY2 decal (Orange, Bright Blue, Blue).

Congratulations :)




Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/01/2010 6:53:35 PM
Message:

18V trim in a HX normally means Sandman. Send me the ID details and ill check them out for you.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 24/01/2010 7:51:33 PM
Message:

Stoked! Its has had its dash swapped and has a 6 and auto in it. But appears to be pretty rust free. Still has clutch pedal in though. Stoked! How do I contact you without putting all the numbers up?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/01/2010 8:03:59 PM
Message:

Email via here.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 24/01/2010 8:06:20 PM
Message:

Hey wbute. Byron (HK1837) will have the no duff on the Sandman. Email him by clicking above his post, youll see a little envelope - its a email to member button.

Cheers.


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 24/01/2010 8:20:32 PM
Message:

Worked it out I hope. This looks like a good site.


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 27/01/2010 9:44:46 PM
Message:

I just noticed that one of my plates has a number in texta written on it.
Why would holden do this as you dont see it anyway?

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 27/01/2010 10:07:46 PM
Message:

Its the last 3 numbers in the PSN (end of the VIN).

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 27/01/2010 10:39:18 PM
Message:

Arrrr Thanks Byron

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 28/01/2010 07:24:41 AM
Message:

Hi, did HX sandman with a 253 have manual choke and therefore a choke cable in the dash?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 28/01/2010 07:44:48 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by wbute

Hi, did HX sandman with a 253 have manual choke and therefore a choke cable in the dash?


No Holden V8 with the exception of the L34 had a manual choke. It was a common conversion in the 70s & 80s to convert to manual choke, instead of repairing the auto choke. Most were not successful.

Dr Terry

_______________________________________
There are only 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. Those who wonder what happened.


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 28/01/2010 12:21:17 PM
Message:

Thanks Dr Terry. By the way I have your old 50 years of Holden book and look forward to getting your new edition.


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 29/01/2010 4:50:27 PM
Message:

Did the HX Sandman ute have the mirrors the same colour as the body? What colour carpet and roof lining for 18v trim? Two barrel carby or 4? Was the engine bay black or same colour as the rest of the ute? What about inside the tray? Sorry so many questions.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/01/2010 6:00:58 PM
Message:

HX Sandman had black mirrors. All Holden spec HJ Sandmans had XY9 neutral headlining as standard, but Kingswood spec were different. Not 100% sure on HX and HZ however, and I cannot find listed where the XX7 or XU3 packages got coloured headlining but I know HZ were coloured at some stage. All I can find reference to is all HZ 8WM 60/70/80 had XY9 as standard, yet I know of 2 x original 23C trim vans with blue headlining. B30 (carpet) was coloured to suit the trim as far as I know. Engine bay depended upon the assembly plant, but Id have to go searching to see what had which colour when (this is from memory). The back should be that flecky beige colour for the ute section but I think the turret sides were just primer or grey. Have a look at the photo on my website of the green HJ van where I show the headlining strip, you can see the grey. That van was very original, and a very rare 6cyl auto HJ Sandman van, 4 wheel drums and all!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 29/01/2010 6:13:05 PM
Message:

I have these in my spreadsheet if its any help:

Van and Ute rear well
Colourflek Astro Grey 611-14224
or Grey Vynacote 599-15160





Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 29/01/2010 7:13:24 PM
Message:

Thanks for the info. It was built in Sydney if that helps for the engine bay colour. Ute looks to have original paint but will know for sure tomorrow. Just for interest sake I have a copy of Motor Manual magazine october 1976. They did a feature on a Sandman van and ute. The van(on the cover too!) is orange and has orange mirrors. Cant see the ute mirrors. They say the ute was pretty rough and was missing the handbrake grip and had the wrong radio etc so maybe they were rushed out the dealer door for the article.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/01/2010 7:35:57 PM
Message:

Is that the article where the van is an M21 and the ute an M41, and they say the ute is gutless but the van is a powerhouse? HX production option availability dated 1/5/75 (release), re-written 10/12/76 and also 28/4/77, says in black and white: Black painted Lukey Slim Line left and right hand door mirrors. HZ are painted body colour.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 29/01/2010 7:42:37 PM
Message:

Yeah thats the one. So black is the go then. What are the new repo mirrors like?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 30/01/2010 12:31:06 AM
Message:

quote:
Not 100% sure on HX and HZ however, and I cannot find listed where the XX7 or XU3 packages got coloured headlining but I know HZ were coloured at some stage. All I can find reference to is all HZ 8WM 60/70/80 had XY9 as standard, yet I know of 2 x original 23C trim vans with blue headlining.


HX and HZ Sandman had coloured headlining as per the trim code, neutral headlining was available as an option on Sandmans with 18V trim codes only. This is listed in the HX and HZ parts catalogues in the trim colour charts.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/01/2010 02:51:10 AM
Message:

It must be because they got Kingswood level trim, and XY9 was available on Kingswood. That is something not spelled out in order or feature paperwork. One of the few times that reversion to the parts catalogue may be required.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/01/2010 10:09:36 AM
Message:

I think I need to do more research here. I looked in the HJ catalogue and there is no mention of a neutral WM70 headlining, only colours. Plus the early catalogue doent even have the long headlining in it!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 30/01/2010 11:19:04 PM
Message:

Have you seen this XU3 HZ Sandman van for your records Byron. The ad says no dreamers but at the price hes asking I think hes the one thats dreaming....

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130362453998

I notice it has a blue full headlining also.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 31/01/2010 08:46:55 AM
Message:

Thats one of the blue headlinings I was referring to. If the body is as good as he says though, $10k for a Palais white van is not that bad I suppose. If there is buger all work to do it could save $3-4k in rust repairs? In my opinion its the best possbile colour, and although Id refer slate black trim it wasnt available for all of HZ so the blue isnt all that bad on white. A mate of mine has a Windsor blue in 23C trim and it looks really nice.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 31/01/2010 1:51:03 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

I think I need to do more research here. I looked in the HJ catalogue and there is no mention of a neutral WM70 headlining, only colours. Plus the early catalogue doesnt even have the long headlining in it!


Ahh, that one is easy Byron. I assume you have the later HJ catalogue, mine is July 77. It lists neutral headlining (Chamois) in 8WN models as available on 18V,X,Y and 45V,X,Y trim codes only. Dove Grey neutral on early production with 18V,X,Y trim codes.

Now the long headlining was only available in Dove Grey, Chamois, Gazelle and Tan so a 19V Sandman would have got Dove Grey during early production and Chamois for later production as standard... Black wasnt available so no need to list neutral headlining for 8WM Sandmans.

My old HJ Sandman had Chamois headlining and that 1/75 Sandman on Ebay last week had a Dove Grey headlining so is consistent with the catalogues.

The only thing that threw me a little was the Red Sandman in the 74 brochure showing the open rear, it has a black full headlining but I have now had a closer look at it and it is actually a base model van with a bench seat.... the full headlining has actually been air brushed in.


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 31/01/2010 5:03:10 PM
Message:

Howdee guys bought my ute 20 years ago in process of rebuilding it need help identifing if sandman or not
HJ UTE
1-76
BHJ12583 M
GVW 1860
SEATING CAP 2

8N80LF J510842 5

MODEL : HJ8WN80
BODY : 510342M
TRIM : 1886-18V
PAINT 568-15949
ENG-L20 TRANS- M20 R AXLE GV7

Terry

Terry


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 31/01/2010 5:07:35 PM
Message:

Just discovered gvw is 1800kg not 1860 on platesis this xu4


HJ UTE
1-76
BHJ12583 M
GVW 1800kg
SEATING CAP 2

8N80LF J510842 5

MODEL : HJ8WN80
BODY : 510342M
TRIM : 1886-18V
PAINT 568-15949
ENG-L20 TRANS- M20 R AXLE GV7

Terry

Terry


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 31/01/2010 5:31:08 PM
Message:

Id never seen an 1800kg HJ Kingswood Sandman ute until the other day, id only ever recorded 1860kg. This is the second one. My guess it is a Sandman but I cannot conform for sure. The best way to tell will be to see if it ever had side strips as the only HJ Kingswood ute not to get them was a Sandman. Look for holes on the ends of the doors and guards and tailgate. Ill have a better look at all the others and see what it throws up.


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 31/01/2010 7:47:07 PM
Message:

As far as i know there were no stripes down the sides only a black decal across the tailgate.

Terry

Terry


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 31/01/2010 8:03:17 PM
Message:

I think he means the kingswood strips that needed holes drilled to fit on the body, not the sandman stripes.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 31/01/2010 8:26:45 PM
Message:



Yes, Kingswood utes had a bump strip down the sides which was deleted on Sandman. The presence of a Sandman decal on the tailgate is pretty good evidence it is a Sandman assuming the tailgate is original to the car.


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 31/01/2010 8:36:48 PM
Message:

Yes with you now. No holes drilled for bump stripes down side of ute or across tailgate.
Terry

Terry


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 31/01/2010 8:43:02 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by put39

As far as i know there were no stripes down the sides only a black decal across the tailgate.

Terry

Terry



As above, strips not stripes. HJ Kingswood Sandman had the side and tailgate STRIPS deleted so that the Sandman STRIPES could be applied. If it isnt a Sandman it will have evidence of the strips being fitted and removed.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 31/01/2010 8:58:34 PM
Message:

At work at the moment will check it out tomorrow

Terry


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 01/02/2010 12:30:07 PM
Message:

Had a look for holes drilled for strips no holes on the body or doors and gaurds.

Terry


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 01/02/2010 1:32:40 PM
Message:

Without wanting to be pedantic, werent those side strips on HJ Kingswoods originally retained by plastic clips located key-hole style on spot-welded studs. Any clips held on by screws (or pop-rivets) would be put there by panelbeaters after any body repairs.

Dr Terry

_______________________________________
There are only 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. Those who wonder what happened.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/02/2010 4:17:51 PM
Message:

Terry, yes for the quarter strips, but the doors, guards and tailgate strips have holes through the panels for the end clips on each strip where a screw holds them from behind. The middlle clips on the panels have studs. I think this is the same from HK eg Kingswood side strips? Plus when you remove paint it is normally obvious where the spot welded studs have been removed by grinder versus if it had none to begin with.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 01/02/2010 4:59:57 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Terry, yes for the quarter strips, but the doors, guards and tailgate strips have holes through the panels for the end clips on each strip where a screw holds them from behind. The middlle clips on the panels have studs. I think this is the same from HK eg Kingswood side strips? Plus when you remove paint it is normally obvious where the spot welded studs have been removed by grinder versus if it had none to begin with.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Yes, of course I forgot about the end clips at the door edge.

Hey Byron, it might be time for a new keyboard or a new typist, you typed two Ls again. look how you spelled middle.

Dr Terry

_______________________________________
There are only 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. Those who wonder what happened.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/02/2010 6:03:20 PM
Message:

Fat fingers, small keyboard or both!!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 01/02/2010 6:51:16 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Id never seen an 1800kg HJ Kingswood Sandman ute until the other day, id only ever recorded 1860kg. This is the second one. My guess it is a Sandman but I cannot conform for sure. The best way to tell will be to see if it ever had side strips as the only HJ Kingswood ute not to get them was a Sandman. Look for holes on the ends of the doors and guards and tailgate. Ill have a better look at all the others and see what it throws up.



You say you have only recorded 1 sandman with 1800gvm how did you confirm that 1
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Terry


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 02/02/2010 12:01:25 PM
Message:

This one is back. ebay ref 130363286316.
Originally posted in the local trading post, but it was removed before I had a chance to look over it.

HX8WM70
body 2421827-A
trim 1894-67V
paint 56715940
engine L31
trans M21
axle GV4

GVW 2200KG
8M70TG J586333X
seating capacity 2

*edited body number - thanks Leroy.


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 02/02/2010 4:04:51 PM
Message:

Body no for the above is 241827, its the latest Melb HX I have come across.


Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 02/02/2010 6:17:49 PM
Message:

Byron got another one This one has been in the shop for the past 3-4 years. Previous owner was in Adelaide who didnt believe it was a Sandman because he believed Sandmans must have XX7 stamped on Body plate.





Also while I was chatting with the guy, he had plates for an HT Monaro, I briefly glanced at it 80737(?). If its important I could go back and get details for you.






Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/02/2010 7:41:33 PM
Message:

Ben Stewart will gladly accept any Monaro ID numbers for the Regsiter. Ill pass them on if you send them to me.

More Sandmans too for the Register. Keep them coming!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 02/02/2010 7:45:25 PM
Message:

Picked my ute up today and brought it home. Someone give me some inspiration. Has some rust in roof and below back window. Some more along one side where some cool dude stuck those thick stick on rubber strips. What I thought was 18V slate grey dash and glove box is actually brown painted slate grey. As I already knew it is missing GTS dash,steering wheel and engine/gearbox. Got a quote from local panelbeater and he said was quite fixable but would be around $12000. Its got a leaking sunroof as well. However the interior light switch wiring is intact and it has a GVM of 1860kg.


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 02/02/2010 8:05:55 PM
Message:

Another interesting plate, the ADR plate is AHX when Feb 77 seems to be the changeover date to BHX, must have been made after a long weekend.

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 02/02/2010 8:32:27 PM
Message:

Mine is a 3/77 with AHX sydney assembled.


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 02/02/2010 10:57:26 PM
Message:

Very nice early sandy http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Genuine-HJ-Sandman-Panel-Van-Suit-HQ-HX-HZ-GTS-Monaro_W0QQitemZ180461027285QQcategoryZ2030QQcmdZViewItem
8M70REL286628J
HJ8WM70
126418A
1886 19V
15949
L32 M20 GU4
AHJ00041A
10/74 2200 2
May have been a release/press car??

Absinth I have a couple of other AHX after 2/77 so there definately out there.

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 03/02/2010 01:13:27 AM
Message:

Pity about the sunroof.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 03/02/2010 06:18:56 AM
Message:

As far as I know there is no such thing as BHX on HX commercials. I have AHX until 8/77 from all assembly plants.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 03/02/2010 09:52:03 AM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140379666644

Tags only from HX Van for sale. Tsk tsk.


Reply author: SANDMN
Replied on: 03/02/2010 1:15:48 PM
Message:

should get them framed and hung on the wall so a van cant be bodgied up


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 03/02/2010 2:04:52 PM
Message:

Body Plate
HQ80270
319474B
1868 30B
567 15335
L31 - M21 - GV2

No XX7 stamp.

VIN
8M70TDH319747Q

ADR
6/74 EHQ64502B
GVW 4850lbs Seating Cap 2




Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 06/02/2010 12:46:20 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

HJ is easy to pick over HX even if the warning lights are missing. HJ had the infill panel over the left vent in Sandman and for GTS the infill panel was cut out with a saw for the vent to be fitted. In HX the dash was factory molded without the infill panel and also had an infill for the wiper switch hole for Sandman, on GTS they use the hole for the wiper dwell. This change and the warning light change would be the reason for the different parts numbers for HJ and HX GTS dashes.

If you look at the silver dash on the Ebay HJ you can see the infill panel still in place, although someone has drilled a hole in it to fit a aftermarket gauge.



Out of interest, I found an immaculate and original fully loaded HJ Premier the other day. It is a 1974 build HJ, and as such has a silver type 4 dash and it looks wierd with the woodgrain glovebox and centre console. Obviously early on there was only the one dash as youd think if there was going to be any different dash itd be in the Premier and LS to remove this woodgrain and silver combo (which obviously was fixed later). This reflects the early catalogue info too.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 07/02/2010 04:28:59 AM
Message:

the earliest HJ sandman???

#000041 out of adelaide
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Genuine-HJ-Sandman-Panel-Van-Suit-HQ-HX-HZ-GTS-Monaro_W0QQitemZ180461027285QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item2a0450bfd5

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 07/02/2010 04:34:20 AM
Message:

ohttp://cgi.ebay.com.au/HX-SANDMAN-ute-shell-GENUINE-with-plates-GTS-holden-SA_W0QQitemZ260549057956QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item3ca9ef1da4

the GVM on this one looks odd, this one looks to end in 00? does it read 1800 kg???

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 07/02/2010 04:36:36 AM
Message:

comments sought on this HJ sandman tailgate decal..

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=1306821&image=340705635&images=340705557,340705569,340705577,340705582,340705596,340705605,340705609,340705615,340705620,340705623,340705629,340705635,340705638,340705643,340705647,340705651,340705656,340705661,340705665,340705668,340705672,340705674,340705938,340705952&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 07/02/2010 04:59:13 AM
Message:

Tailgate decal looks fine Adam, what do you think is wrong with it?

You need to shorten those urls mate.


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 07/02/2010 09:42:01 AM
Message:

Correct Adam. It has some errors.
At a guess Im guessing its one of the vinyl cut ones on the market.
Not the screen printed ones.
My kits as where the sandman_decals(ebay) blokes kits (when he had them) when matched from NOS samples.
The issue with it is the spacings of between each of the boxes.
There is the centre black box. Then the nothing box where the paint shows.
Then the thicker of the two black boxes. The spacing between the solid centre
black box and the thicker of the two black outline box is not correct.
It should be about half that spacing.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: Sunstater
Replied on: 07/02/2010 8:11:29 PM
Message:

Byron, please find details from my van for register. Had it only since 2002. From what is left and your monaro pages info it seems to be 95% chancer. Drivetrain chaged. I would like your ideas please. Rick.

ADR PLATE:

HOLDEN HX PANEL VAN
11/76 gvw 1950 ahx 16625A
SEATING CAP: 2

MODEL: HX8W M 70
BODY NO. 215804-A
TRIM: 1918-60A
PAINT: 567-17774
ENG: L31 TRANS:M21 RRAXLE GV4

ID PLATE: 8M70TGL36535X

Thanks Very Much.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/02/2010 8:31:21 PM
Message:

Id be surprised if it isnt. It could be an XU4 but most likely XX7. Check for headlining rear strip and interior light switches in door jam and/or wiring for them.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/02/2010 12:48:58 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by adam PERTH

ohttp://cgi.ebay.com.au/HX-SANDMAN-ute-shell-GENUINE-with-plates-GTS-holden-SA_W0QQitemZ260549057956QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item3ca9ef1da4

the GVM on this one looks odd, this one looks to end in 00? does it read 1800 kg???

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines



Sure does. Another little bit of info that has only just crept out of the woodwork, with 3 x 6cyl HJ and HX XX7s in the past 2 weeks.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/02/2010 12:53:57 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Blocker

Body Plate
HQ80270
319474B
1868 30B
567 15335
L31 - M21 - GV2

No XX7 stamp.

VIN
8M70TDH319747Q

ADR
6/74 EHQ64502B
GVW 4850lbs Seating Cap 2







Yeah, I already had it recorded. The BODY number should be 319747 though. Another one of those wierd Acacia Ridge "Sandmans" without XX7. Ive only recorded one of them that cannot be a Sandman (ie metallic paint without XX7) and it was a 3 seater. Rest are all very much Sandman-like. There are 10 of them recorded.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: CrustyHK
Replied on: 10/02/2010 6:44:45 PM
Message:

Hi Byron, or anyone else who could enlighten me on these numbers

MOD-HX8WM70
BOD-236624-A
TRIM-1886-18V
PAINT-568-15949
L32 M20 CV7

6/77
1950KG
AHX05152M
SEAT-2

Cheers

Pete


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/02/2010 6:58:23 PM
Message:

Very much a HX XX7 Sandman van. Not much else to tell, apart from 253 4spd with 3.55 diff. 1886 is Absinth yellow and 18V is slate black trim.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: CrustyHK
Replied on: 10/02/2010 7:39:30 PM
Message:

Thanks Byron

Its rusty in some nasty places and with windows in the back and a sunroof it really needs a complete top on it so not a job for the feint hearted. Would be a nice one when done though

Cheers
Pete


Reply author: we wreck 81837s only
Replied on: 10/02/2010 7:46:15 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Very much a HX XX7 Sandman van. Not much else to tell, apart from 253 4spd with 3.55 diff. 1886 is Absinth yellow and 18V is slate black trim.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



here it is in the flesh




"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 10/02/2010 8:07:44 PM
Message:

Frank, is that the one Neal is selling with another van as spares. Bloody good value at $5000, if it wasnt so far away Id probably buy it.


Reply author: we wreck 81837s only
Replied on: 10/02/2010 8:28:33 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

Frank, is that the one Neal is selling with another van as spares. Bloody good value at $5000, if it wasnt so far away Id probably buy it.



thats the one, im fixing worse cars than this at the moment..

"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 10/02/2010 10:48:59 PM
Message:

The stripes on that one are umm... interesting.


Reply author: CrustyHK
Replied on: 11/02/2010 10:30:21 PM
Message:

The stripes are dull and lacking the outlines that set them off. They look great when in good nick.

Can someone tell me if the van roofs from the seam below the side windows are all the same? I heard that from HQ through to WB the tops were identical but read somewhere that different plants produced different shapes

Cheers

Pete


Reply author: micks_sandman
Replied on: 12/02/2010 2:22:28 PM
Message:

Byron, Hi and here are some more ID tags/information for your register,Please share your thoughts,with the money im spending I hope to bugery its a Sandman?????(so does my wife!!!)

Model: HJ8WM70 XX7
BodyNo: 384107B
Trim: 1916 19V
Paint: 568 17777

top
eng L31 TransM21 GV4

........................................
HOLDEN
HJ PANEL VAN

5/76 BHJ 25427B
GVW 1950 kg seating cap 2
.........................................

GENERAL MOTORS HOLDENS PTY LTD
8M70TF H384107J
.........................................
and yes it has fingers at rear of van for hood lining, and door plug to turn on interior light fitted.Have had the van for 16 months and still long way to go,but heaps of fun!!! Questions: what colour is my hood lining? what motor should be in it(308 at present,not original)came with twin headlights? all other GTS options fitted. Hope this is helpfull you all doing a great job,heaps of info, I will need to ask about decals and which are the BEST and how to source them??


Reply author: micks_sandman
Replied on: 12/02/2010 2:24:02 PM
Message:

Forgot to sign off!!!

Thanks Mick


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/02/2010 3:06:33 PM
Message:

It is an XX7 Sandman, easy one to pick. Twin front isnt original though. It was originally a 308. Not that certain on headlining. Neutral (Chamois) is supposed to be standard on HJ base model. With 19V trim I imagine itll be Neutral. Absinth has a better handle on this at the moment.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Michael_4
Replied on: 12/02/2010 3:10:58 PM
Message:

Byron, you may wanna check out the latest issue of Unique Cars Magazine. Theyve got the Sandmans as a feature in the latest issue.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/02/2010 4:22:56 PM
Message:

I know. I bought it yesterday. I just wish theyd asked me to check it out before publishing as they have made a fair few novice errors.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 13/02/2010 08:23:58 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by CrustyHK

The stripes are dull and lacking the outlines that set them off. They look great when in good nick.

Can someone tell me if the van roofs from the seam below the side windows are all the same? I heard that from HQ through to WB the tops were identical but read somewhere that different plants produced different shapes

Cheers

Pete



I know I was more pointing out that they are not original and are an interresting way of someone doing them.

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 13/02/2010 11:21:18 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

I know. I bought it yesterday. I just wish theyd asked me to check it out before publishing as they have made a fair few novice errors.



What are these errors?
Has it got to do with the badges on the tailgate?

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 14/02/2010 08:49:15 AM
Message:

HQ Sandman vans and utes are based upon Belmonts. Wrong.

"came with Monaro-style louvered mudguards". No. GTS style as per what they say about instruments.

The sentence about wild colours including the full range of HQ Monaro metallics, with decals in up to six different colour combinations. Wrong. Metallics have little to do with Monaro (paint is really the Kingswood range), and HQ only has 2 x stripe colours. They are probably referring to HZ but the sentence doesnt read that way.

Once the GTS sedan was discontinued in 1979, the Sandman line also dissapeared. Nope. GTS was gone early 1979. Sandman lasted until late 1979, almost to the end of HZ.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 15/02/2010 11:37:12 PM
Message:

[quote]Originally posted by HK1837

As far as I know there is no such thing as BHX on HX commercials. I have AHX until 8/77 from all assembly plants.

In regards to ADR changes I have recorded several 1 and 2/79 HZ commercials with CHZ but the sedans are still BHZ until 4/79 what was the change and why only commercials initially?

Leroy



"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 16/02/2010 08:19:34 AM
Message:

Itll just be an ADR change that happened later on the passenger vehicles or vice versa. HX is probably intrusion bars in passenger vehicles but commercials didnt get them.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 19/02/2010 11:28:57 AM
Message:

Got this one?

Model: HJ8WM80 XX7
Body: 349263B
Trim: 1905 64V
Paint: 568 17342
Eng: L32 Trans: M20 Axle: GU4


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/02/2010 12:02:12 PM
Message:

No, and a rare one too. I have hardly any HQ-HJ Belmont/Holden Sandman utes recorded, most are Kingswood. 8WM80 XX7/XU3 was dropped mid HJ, so they are only around from 1/74 to 2or3/76. Only the 2nd HJ (have 1 x HQ also) Acacia Ridge example. Do you have the chassis number?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 19/02/2010 12:24:34 PM
Message:

5/75 Build
BHJ 13440B (hard to read)
GVW: 2200
Seating: 2

Long Tag: 8M80REH349263J
http://www.seven82motors.com/showroom/1975-xx7-sandman-ute-for-sale-seven82motors-on-the-gold-coast-/


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/02/2010 12:30:19 PM
Message:

BHJ13440B is right. Rest I deduced from what you already posted.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 19/02/2010 11:21:05 PM
Message:

Ive been looking through some Sandman brochures and 70s magazines and have found a lot of discrepancies.

First off is HJ Sandman interior. The first pic is from the HJ brochure and the second is a 2yr old (at the time) HJ Sandman in CV&T. Only 2yrs old and the owner has fitted a Prem front and Statesman Caprice dash.

Note the different door trims.




Next is HX interior. This is the road test HX Sandman van CV&T picked up from Fishermans Bend to road test in Oct. 76

Note the HJ console




Now mirrors....

HX Sandman with coloured mirrors



Van Action road test of HX Sandman van and ute.
Van has coloured mirrors and Ute has black mirrors.




Then.... we have a HZ Sandman van with black mirrors.




My question is.... are these just differences between promotional vehicles and production vehicles or were there differences between assembly plants?

With the HJ door trims, I have seen other examples of Sandmans with the same base model door trims as in the second picture.


Reply author: papaya hx
Replied on: 22/02/2010 5:43:43 PM
Message:

Another one to list
HJ8WM80 XX7
351591B
1886-19V
L32 M20 GU4

5/75 2200kg seat 2

8W80REH351591J


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 22/02/2010 7:53:05 PM
Message:

This one was on Ebay.

Model: HJ
Engine: L31 Trans: M21 Axle: GV4
Model HWN80JR 03/75
TRIM 1886-18V
PAINT:568-15949
Seating: 2
GVW: 2200
middle body plate 8N80TEH855266J


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/02/2010 9:37:20 PM
Message:

Got it already. Not sure what to think about the photos above. GMH and their prototypes and press cars, who knows?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 22/02/2010 9:51:10 PM
Message:

I solved one of the mysteries. I found that HX auto consoles were available with or without front lift up lid. Its listed in the parts catalogue.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/02/2010 10:01:16 PM
Message:

You learn something new everyday with GMH product once you really start digging. The biggest thing ive learned is you can never make sweeping statements like "all 253s are trimatic pattern", or "all HT Broughams wer powerglides" because there is always one thing that trips you up!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: papaya hx
Replied on: 22/02/2010 10:09:01 PM
Message:

Hi Byron was it absinths ebay car or my sandman you already have Cheers Ron


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/02/2010 08:30:29 AM
Message:

Sorry Ron, it was Absinths. Did you have a chassis number for the one you listed? Should be BHJ135xxB or close to it.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: papaya hx
Replied on: 23/02/2010 4:23:20 PM
Message:

Chassis number is BHJ 13535B. Can send photos of compliance plates if this helps, but will need an email address as I dont know how to post on this site!!! Thanks Ron.


Reply author: blameyone
Replied on: 24/02/2010 4:01:08 PM
Message:

Hi all, Ive seen a HQ van sitting in a yard with NRMA setup, looking pretty straight, What do I have be weary of when checking it a bit closer and what sort of money should I be thinking to buy it?. The answers may be somewhere on these 95 pages, can somebody tell me to save me reading them all....all the best regards Jack.


Reply author: rodney
Replied on: 24/02/2010 5:14:35 PM
Message:

Hi everyone, can anyone help me with this question: We have just bought a panel van and we consider it to be a Sandman the information on the ID plate is as follows: VIN: 8M70RHJ595291Z
The complience plate shows: HZ panel van
10-77 AHZ 00205M
GVW 1950kg seat capacity 2
the other plate says Model HZ8WM70
Body No 395399-A
Trim 1927-67V
Paint 568-30518
Eng L32 Trans M20 RRAXLE GV7


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/02/2010 5:59:49 PM
Message:

Get the tyre placard number. Its your best friend for this car!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 24/02/2010 6:19:52 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by papaya hx

Chassis number is BHJ 13535B. Can send photos of compliance plates if this helps, but will need an email address as I dont know how to post on this site!!! Thanks Ron.



Ron, dont worry about photos. All the numbers fit. As you can see my Sandman database is big enough now to predict most numbers given a partial ID. Its only the lower digits of the chassis, VIN and BODY numbers plus paint codes and build configurations that become important.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 24/02/2010 10:04:33 PM
Message:

Hi Byron do you have the details for the sister car to Rodneys it has next PSN 292 and body no 400 but the chassis is 40 different and also 11/77 for compliance.

Rodney do you have the engine no?

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/02/2010 07:16:01 AM
Message:

Yes. I have 12 x Dandenong HZ Sandmans between chassis numbers between 133M and 582M including Rodneys if its one.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 25/02/2010 08:24:40 AM
Message:

Ive spotted an HZ ute the last couple weeks on the way to work. Stopped off yesterday to have a chat to the owner.

He has had it for 12 months and selling - sadly the ADR plate did not match the details of the Body plate. What is the best way to determine which plate is correct for the car?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 25/02/2010 08:41:01 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Blocker

He has had it for 12 months and selling - sadly the ADR plate did not match the details of the Body plate. What is the best way to determine which plate is correct for the car?


The chassis number on the ADR compliance plate must be the same as the chassis number stamped on the rail next to the steering box.

Dr Terry

_______________________________________
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who can count.
2. Those who cant.


Reply author: rodney
Replied on: 25/02/2010 11:13:55 AM
Message:

this van is still with the owner i paid a reasonable size deposite and sail agreement for the sandman van .The owner read the tyre placard for me this morning and he says there is vynil over spray on the placard , is hard to read and doesnot want to clean it to much because it may clean the numbers of but thinks the number is 9942860 assuming the 2 is 6 and he has miss read this does it come down to weather the last number a 9 panel van or a 6 sandman. Iam from central nsw is there someone from melbourne that may be an expert that may be able to inspect to confirm


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 25/02/2010 9:45:28 PM
Message:

if the glovebox is original the placard will eaither be 9947524 (XU4) or 9946866 (XX7)

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: rodney
Replied on: 01/03/2010 1:23:44 PM
Message:

Hi fellows thanks for your information so far
It appears that the tyre placard number is to hard to read would a sandman have a different nominated rim size or pressures etc than a xu4
Iam also basing my assumption that this is a sandman because it had the following
roof lining attachment clips over back door
black button switch for courtesy light on door frame front
centre console and bolts in bottom of console look original
2 seats
the out side of the van door openings have been sprayed and chip on the outsie bottom of the door sill reveals black
paint under, the steering wheel is a three spoked wheel with 2 holes in each.
Under the bonnett has not been resprayed and is the original jasmine yellow,I will have to have a second look now, but from memory the double headlight front end, appeared to be original, with some jasmine yellow on the inside of it.
Is Jasmine yellow more likely to be a colour for a sandman rather than an XU4? and is the L32 high compression motor more likely to be standard in a Sandman than an XU4?

Many thanks if you can answer some or all of the questions, and comment on my assumption I would be grateful
Rodney


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/03/2010 5:28:27 PM
Message:

It does sound like a Sandman, but all that stuff is optional on an XU4 plus a BO6 (Ambulance pack) had the twin headlight front, so if its all original it could be a 253 4spd BO6 XU4. Main difference is B06 got Premier doortrims and armrests, but didnt get blackouts and air dam. Not sure about console. L32 engine is normal 253 for any HZ. Jasmine yellow is one of the 4 x colours you could get a base HZ commercial in, so no help there either. In HZ, Sandman had a different tyre placard to XU4, thats why for an early HZ van the tyre placard is your best option.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 01/03/2010 6:58:33 PM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hx-Holden-Sandman-Panel-Van_W0QQitemZ250588348882


In the questions and answers the seller states he has been told by monaroparts.com that it is most probably a Sandman?????????


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 01/03/2010 7:28:26 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Main difference is B06 got Premier doortrims and armrests, but didnt get blackouts and air dam. Not sure about console.


BO6 came standard with a bench seat & column shift.

Ive seen more BO6s with out a console than with one.

Dr Terry.

_______________________________________

The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.


Reply author: ITCH
Replied on: 01/03/2010 7:32:20 PM
Message:

I believe this to be the same so called Sandman that was posted here:http://www.fastlane.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23710

< Gotta Luv It!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/03/2010 07:35:37 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hx-Holden-Sandman-Panel-Van_W0QQitemZ250588348882


In the questions and answers the seller states he has been told by monaroparts.com that it is most probably a Sandman?????????



I think he means he read it on there.

Doc, Ive owned 2 and both were column autos but all the manuals Ive seen were 4 speeds. I think one had a console - it was a 253 M20 in green.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rodney
Replied on: 02/03/2010 08:06:12 AM
Message:

Hello i have a tyre placard which was emailed to me, I would like to email it to you, for you to see if there is any hint which may be able to sort out if it is a Sandman or not...could you explain to me how to include a picture into this formum.
thanks Jennie Barnes


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 02/03/2010 08:22:39 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837


Doc, Ive owned 2 and both were column autos but all the manuals Ive seen were 4 speeds. I think one had a console - it was a 253 M20 in green.


This is probably due to the fact that most BO6s were V8s & all 308 manuals & most 253 manuals are 4 speeds. Making a 3-speed column shift manual BO6 a rare bird indeed.

Dr Terry

_______________________________________

The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 02/03/2010 10:43:57 AM
Message:

Well I think Byron deserves some congratulations - 100 pages, 1000+ posts, and closing in on 70,000 views. It looks like the interest in Sandmans is alive and well.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/03/2010 6:09:40 PM
Message:

You couldnt order a BO6 in L31 M21, only L31 M41, L32 M20, L32 M40 - not sure about L32 M15 or 6 cylinders (Ive never actually seen a 6cyl example). The two Ive had were a white HZ 253 auto column shift 3.55:1 with air, Ultra blue HZ 308 auto column shift 3.36:1 (my Overlander) and a friend had a Panama Green HZ 253 M20 with 3.55:1. All had GTS dashes.

There is some more great Sandman stuff to come as well - been working on the book more. Well into HJ stuff and there is some fascinating info in HJ. Things like in 1976 HJ (presumedly after range was rationalised at LX release??), a 308 van with air is a Sandman ie you couldnt (officially anyway) order A/C on a 308 van. And you couldnt officially get a 253 auto ute unless it was a Kingswood, but not Kingswood Sandman ie no 253 auto Kingswood Sandman utes (you couldnt get a Holden Sandman ute after 10/75, only Kingswood). All of the above if im reading the documents correctly - ill get a few others to check them first to make sure im right! What a nightmare!!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/03/2010 8:20:29 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rodney

Hello i have a tyre placard which was emailed to me, I would like to email it to you, for you to see if there is any hint which may be able to sort out if it is a Sandman or not...could you explain to me how to include a picture into this formum.
thanks Jennie Barnes



Try here:

http://www.fastlane.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21452

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 02/03/2010 9:50:31 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rodney

Hello i have a tyre placard which was emailed to me, I would like to email it to you, for you to see if there is any hint which may be able to sort out if it is a Sandman or not...could you explain to me how to include a picture into this formum.
thanks Jennie Barnes



Just email it to me if you like.
jason@stickthisdecals.com.au

Cheers
Jason


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 02/03/2010 9:52:07 PM
Message:

Because there arent many BO6s around, are they going to be more of a collectors item in later years?

P.S. What about my BO6 HZ Byron??

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 02/03/2010 10:07:34 PM
Message:

My guess is theyll be as collectable as Vacationers etc or any other low volume sellers.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 03/03/2010 01:52:34 AM
Message:

also that sandman utes ceased on 23/3/1979 and yet an XU3 5/1979 ute turned up on ebay recently...
the more you dig, the more you find... so much for some of the holden documentation.

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 03/03/2010 07:02:21 AM
Message:

Yes I know. The GMH ordering procedure dated 23/3/79 says under XU3 and XX7 "8WM80 model - cancel effective as soon as possible". So that means from this date you could no longer order one. The 5/79 example was more than likely ordered prior to this update.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 03/03/2010 8:50:40 PM
Message:

http://s6.tinypic.com/10qmmj5_th.jpg
Trying to work out how to post pictures.

Terry


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 03/03/2010 9:04:56 PM
Message:

http://i46.tinypic.com/2v1q13r_th.jpg
Think i worked it out.

Terry


Reply author: davequey74
Replied on: 03/03/2010 9:49:23 PM
Message:

terry, all you need to do is paste the url address between the tags not after them

(img)paste here(/img)


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 03/03/2010 9:59:44 PM
Message:


how about now

Terry


Reply author: we wreck 81837s only
Replied on: 03/03/2010 10:04:59 PM
Message:

you nailed it...

"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."


Reply author: put39
Replied on: 03/03/2010 10:10:10 PM
Message:

Thanks for that guys

Terry


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 08/03/2010 4:12:57 PM
Message:

HZ Sandman Stripes....

I brought a NOS HZ parts book recently and it came with a supplement. Its effective October 1980 just like the parts book.

Interesting thing is in the supplement is lists the sandman stripes available. It does not list DY6. And! it does list DX5. But it lists what is believed to be DX5 HX stripes (plum, purple, dark blue). Not the bright blue, blue green, dark blue HZ DX5. So where does this leave the three Blue combo? How sure are we that the 3 blues in HZ are DX5?? In October 1980 the 3 blue combo was not even listed....

It goes on also. DY4. Is listed as bright yellow, light orange, dark orange. I thought this was a HX only colour. obviously not. So if DY4 is the orange/yellow combo than what is the white, blue green, dark blue combo called in HZ.

Opens up a can of worms no doubt!


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 08/03/2010 4:17:20 PM
Message:


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/03/2010 5:07:42 PM
Message:

I came to the conclusion many years ago that this particular page in the HZ parts catalogue is wrong.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: crowe
Replied on: 08/03/2010 6:54:24 PM
Message:

Yes I have the same book. If you go into the parts book the blues are listed for the panals etc, This is a revision (there are 2- April79 on trim chart & Oct80 illustration index) So after this date these changes now apply. So that doesnt mean it was not avaiable befor hand. So guys what are the last Sandman porduction dates- ute & vans ???? I have a May 79 build van


Reply author: crowe
Replied on: 08/03/2010 7:17:16 PM
Message:

Also looking at monaros sandman info, it states that HZ sandmans have a XU3 or XX7 on the id plate. Mine has nothing, that must depend on what plant they were made in?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 08/03/2010 7:19:42 PM
Message:

Its in a revision though byron. Not the parts book itself..


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 08/03/2010 8:08:50 PM
Message:

Crowe, Brisbane plant was the only one that stamped the special package code on the BODY plate. Other 3 x Sandman assembly plants didnt. You couldnt order a Sandman ute after March 1979. Vans were deleted in October.

Jason that scan you put up is just a revision page for the HZ Parts Catalogue. And its not right. I think its the same as the HX info from memory. My guess is someone stuffed up.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 08/03/2010 10:03:29 PM
Message:

well that would explain everything! =)


Reply author: rodney
Replied on: 09/03/2010 1:55:10 PM
Message:

Got HZ sandman van home in shed. It is advertised in this months unique cars page 216. I want to return it to as close to original as possible .L32 high compression is this just a 253 with heads shaved more or is there a difference in the crank shaft. if there is a difference is one of the following engine no. better suited to L32.QR 846928 or QR887183. Also should I paint the van with 2 pack or acryic?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 09/03/2010 2:37:41 PM
Message:

A high-compression 253 is the normal motor. The rare low-compression version just has deeper dished pistons.

All 253 & 308 heads are the same (model for model), there was no shaving.

On the topic of shaving V8 heads. its not that simple. If more than nominal amount is removed, the inlet manifold will also need machining just to fit it back on. On a straight 6 this is not an issue.

Dr Terry

_______________________________________

The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 09/03/2010 3:40:53 PM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HZ-SANDMAN-CHASSIS-MATCHING-PLATES_W0QQitemZ250593058266

How did you verify this as a genuine Sandman Byron? Is it the chassis number or something?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/03/2010 5:38:42 PM
Message:

I dont remember it, but its in the register. I wouldnt have given 100% verification for it as there is nothing that 100% verifies it, but I do have a tyre placard recorded against it and in HZ the XX7 placard is unique to XX7. So with a combination of 1950kg GVW, 253 4spd and the correct tyre placard I would have told the owner Id be surprised if it wasnt. Especially if it has door switches and full length headlining. Put it this way, I record all XX7, XU3 and XU4 I find. I have getting close to 100 x HZ Sandmans recorded, and only 2 x HZ XU4. So while a derated GVW is not a Sandman guarantee its pretty close.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 09/03/2010 5:52:02 PM
Message:

So in its current state with no tyre placard or body plate its just a rather expensive chassis with matching derated + 2 seater ID plates.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/03/2010 6:21:32 PM
Message:

Basically yes. For me to record the tyre placard number the owner must have given it to me, so he/she probably has the glovebox. Its not worth $3,000 in my opinion, but someone might want a Windsor blue with 60V trim (that will be how I picked it - missed that before) 253 Sandman van. Ebay isnt the way to sell it though, as itll probably get pulled.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 09/03/2010 6:33:25 PM
Message:

You need the body plate for colour and trim which is not included so no way to tell it is Windsor Blue with 60V trim or what running gear it had.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/03/2010 7:42:43 PM
Message:

Ive got that info recorded for it, so whenever I got the info it was given to me along with the tyre placard number. Pretty strange that info isnt in the auction though?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 10/03/2010 01:36:57 AM
Message:

bryon, when you record them,, do you have a comments column like "chassis and tags only March 2010"?

or
$17500 Ebay Feb 2010??

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 10/03/2010 07:08:06 AM
Message:

I asked the bloke about the 3rd tag. he now has a pic of it up. Wonder where the body is....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/03/2010 07:25:54 AM
Message:

Adam, no I dont. I only record the info. The reason I started collecting ID was simply to solve some mysteries/trends that only a large chunk of ID can solve. It also helps to make sure that others cars have matching (or as close as I can figure) ID as referring to a database is the only was you can do this for HQ-HZ Dandenong vans and HJ-HZ Pagewood vans.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 10/03/2010 1:13:22 PM
Message:

Byron youre doing the work that many have wished Holden did, by keeping and maintaining a historical record... Thank you!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 10/03/2010 5:17:18 PM
Message:

Your site is looking good too. Ill wait till I have written some more of the book before I comment as I am finding heaps more stuff as I go. Im also finding there are about 25 documents I need to chase down, and not just documents but revisions of documents.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: 71xu1
Replied on: 12/03/2010 12:42:56 PM
Message:

If a Hz van after 12/77 has a GVW of 2000kg tag does this guarantee its a sandman provided they are the original tags etc. I posted info about this van already but cant find the info.
Cheers Dave

Dave


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/03/2010 4:16:00 PM
Message:

Yes. 2000kg is unique to HZ XX7 van from approx 1/78.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 18/03/2010 11:45:13 PM
Message:

my old sandman on EBAY.
i built this from ground up in about 1998.
(not the way i would build it now though!)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170460423671&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching

Bryon, the Tag info is on the pics. C/N AHX01704

WANTED:
-2 14 x 9.25 CSA style Centrelines.
-2 x 15 x 8 Dragway centrelines


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/03/2010 09:02:12 AM
Message:

Another damn HX fully loaded Kingswood van. Probably a BO6:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HX-Holden-Panelvan-with-all-Sandman-options_W0QQitemZ180483066457QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item2a05a10a59


_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 20/03/2010 10:37:13 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Another damn HX fully loaded Kingswood van. Probably a BO6:
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Was the B06 option available on Kingswood models?

It doesnt have the Premier front and has had GTS guards fitted. The GTS dash and Prem door trims could have been fitted to it any time in the last 30yrs. Id say its just a V8 4sp console shift optioned Kingswood van. Nice combination though and an excellent candidate for a Sandman replica.

Another listing where the "reserve price" is a BIG secret...


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 20/03/2010 10:57:18 AM
Message:

Yes, BO6 was available on HOLDEN and Kingswood vans. It is rare to find a 308 van outside of XX7, XU3 or BO6. I reckon the twin front went missing when the GTS guards were fitted. Could be as you say though.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 20/03/2010 10:24:26 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Yes, BO6 was available on HOLDEN and Kingswood vans. It is rare to find a 308 van outside of XX7, XU3 or BO6. I reckon the twin front went missing when the GTS guards were fitted. Could be as you say though.



What would have a better resale value a BO6 or a 308 Kingswood van?
Or is it like was said before that they are like a "Vacationer" in the popularity stakes?

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/03/2010 09:55:33 AM
Message:

No different really. BO6 is just a dress up package, and on a van it doesnt really add much. From memory its just the nose and Premier armrests. Most got GTS dashes but its not part of the package. 308 was an option too on a BO6, so I guess the more valuable would have to be the 308 Kingswood as a standard BO6 will be a smaller engine.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 21/03/2010 10:01:19 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

so I guess the more valuable would have to be the 308 Kingswood as a standard BO6 will be a smaller engine.


Wasnt the BO6 a 308?

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/03/2010 07:53:22 AM
Message:

No, ive had 253 examples as well. I used to have a HZ BO6 tonner with 253 column shift trimatic. It had a GTS too. I also know of a HZ 253 M20 BO6.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: AGRO
Replied on: 22/03/2010 12:07:48 PM
Message:

Well there you go.
I thought BO6s only come in 308s with a column shift Turbo 400.

So my 308, column auto turbo 400, GTS dash, full hoodling, Kingswood van with Metallic paint is not as special as i thought it was.

Bugger!

-------------------------------
75 HJ Sandman Pano
78 HZ BO6 Pano


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/03/2010 5:22:55 PM
Message:

Its special as it has a 308 and is a BO6. No doubt rarer than a Sandman but like other such oddities will never bring big money. If it was a one owner, original paint, really good original van itd pull good money but its like all the lesser spec cars. You are better off modding them and using them if they have already been altered or suffered the ravages of time. There is little point in restoring them to original, unless you want to! Youd be better off ($ wise anyway) making a Sandman replica out of it.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 22/03/2010 9:39:11 PM
Message:

http://australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle/137719-hq-belmont-ute-5l-v8
Another unusual combo, 308 4spd bench seat ute in Purr Pull.
Interested to see what it sells for.

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: 80569K
Replied on: 23/03/2010 1:16:54 PM
Message:

How many kids would have enjoyed sitting in the middle and changed gears for Dad. My son for one, he would have been watching my left foot like a hawk, lol.

Reality is only an illusion which occurs due to a lack of alcohol.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/03/2010 6:15:07 PM
Message:

I used to do that with my old mans WB with bench and aussie 4spd!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hqgts
Replied on: 24/03/2010 4:00:27 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Jones

http://australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle/137719-hq-belmont-ute-5l-v8
Another unusual combo, 308 4spd bench seat ute in Purr Pull.
Interested to see what it sells for.

Leroy



Purr Pull L31 M21 GV2 BELMONT.... rare beast indeed


Reply author: stimo
Replied on: 27/03/2010 9:53:30 PM
Message:

Hi guys

I just picked up a panelvan and im wondering if you could help me tell me if its a sandman or not.

D.O.M 11/75
G.V.M 1950kg
Seating capacity 2

8m70tf 1368388j
model: HJ8WM70 XX7
BODY: 368388B
TRIM: 189960V
PAINT: 56715945
ENG:L31 TRANS:M21 AXLE:GV4


Any help would be appreciated

Jason


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 27/03/2010 9:57:27 PM
Message:

xx7 means yes. Byron will confirm I would imagine.


Reply author: wbute
Replied on: 27/03/2010 10:01:09 PM
Message:

try mysandman.com.au for info.


Reply author: Blocker
Replied on: 28/03/2010 12:50:11 AM
Message:

Nice pickup Jason!
If the plates are original to the vehicle then yep its a Sandman.

However Byron would definitely like to see/add those plate details to his database.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 28/03/2010 4:01:13 PM
Message:

Yes, all new additions to the list welcome. Ive been summarising the cars on the register lately as im up to the paint section of the book (what a nightmare by the way - colour charts are almost useless in determining what colours were available when!), and im still missing Sandmans in certain colours:

1974/5 HJ - 1887, 1897, 1889, 1893 and 1902.
1976 HJ - 1918, 1919 and 1852.
pre 11/78 HZ - 1894, 1936, 1925, 2214, 1932, 1949, 1955, 1958
post 11/78 HZ - 1948, 1953, 1926, 1949, 1931, 1945, 1959.

COLOURS EDITED 29/3/10 AS SOME HAVE COME IN SINCE ORIGINAL POST

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: stimo
Replied on: 28/03/2010 5:55:26 PM
Message:

Cheers for the help ill put the pics of the plates up soon


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 28/03/2010 5:56:34 PM
Message:

I can help with some...

79 HZ 1931




HX 1914 Aquarius... sorry its blurry



HZ 1189 Firethorn


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 28/03/2010 6:38:01 PM
Message:

Thanks for those Absinth. Do you have the rest of the data? The first one isnt a Sandman though. I have Kingswoods etc recorded in most of those colours but not Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 28/03/2010 7:43:06 PM
Message:

Byron are you after plate pics or details or pics of the cars in various colours?

Leroy



"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 28/03/2010 8:08:41 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by stimo

Hi guys

I just picked up a panelvan and im wondering if you could help me tell me if its a sandman or not.

D.O.M 11/75
G.V.M 1950kg
Seating capacity 2

8m70tf 1368388j
model: HJ8WM70 XX7
BODY: 368388B
TRIM: 189960V
PAINT: 56715945
ENG:L31 TRANS:M21 AXLE:GV4


Any help would be appreciated

Jason



Whats your tyre placard part number out of interest?

<center></center>


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/03/2010 07:31:21 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Jones

Byron are you after plate pics or details or pics of the cars in various colours?

Leroy



"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire



Just details. These are the colours that arent on the Register yet. I now have 2 x 1189!
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: stimo
Replied on: 29/03/2010 09:35:14 AM
Message:

can anyone tell me how to add photos on to this


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 29/03/2010 7:35:33 PM
Message:

Join a site like www.photobucket.com and upload your photos. You can also download free programs like www.irfanview.com to resize your pics before you upload them. Once uploaded copy the IMG code beneath the pic youve uploaded, then paste that into your post. easy peasy...


Reply author: hainzy
Replied on: 29/03/2010 7:41:31 PM
Message:

For example heres my recently repainted carribean turquoise sandman...

Only a small pic but...


Reply author: stimo
Replied on: 30/03/2010 09:18:36 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hainzy

For example heres my recently repainted carribean turquoise sandman...

Only a small pic but...




http://s819.photobucket.com/albums/zz116/stimo_bucket/?action=view¤t=P3280209.jpg


Reply author: stimo
Replied on: 30/03/2010 09:21:21 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hainzy

Join a site like www.photobucket.com and upload your photos. You can also download free programs like www.irfanview.com to resize your pics before you upload them. Once uploaded copy the IMG code beneath the pic youve uploaded, then paste that into your post. easy peasy...



Cheers for the help now just hope i do have a sandman
http://s819.photobucket.com/albums/zz116/stimo_bucket/?action=view¤t=P3280208.jpg
http://s819.photobucket.com/albums/zz116/stimo_bucket/?action=view¤t=P3280207.jpg


Reply author: stimo
Replied on: 30/03/2010 09:32:08 AM
Message:


http://s819.photobucket.com/albums/zz116/stimo_bucket/?action=view¤t=panelvanplates.jpg


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 30/03/2010 09:40:56 AM
Message:

Cant get any more Sandman than that, Brissy built and XX7 stamp is your confirmation.


Reply author: stimo
Replied on: 30/03/2010 09:45:50 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Absinth

Cant get any more Sandman than that, Brissy built and XX7 stamp is your confirmation.





Thats great news i picked it up out of a farm shed for $1500 from a bloke that started to rebuild it and didnt know how so he got rid of it


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 01/04/2010 09:45:29 AM
Message:

Question for Byron.

Are there any available Sandman exterior paint colours that you have yet to record?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/04/2010 1:26:30 PM
Message:

Yes. Go back to my post on the bottom of page 105. I updated it as a few more have come in since.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 01/04/2010 1:53:43 PM
Message:

Could be borderline for post 11/78
Model: HZ8WM70 XX7
Body:468187B
Trim: 1926 - 63V
Paint: 568 - 30517
L32/M20/GV4

Model: HZ8WM70
Body:422880A
Trim: 1926 - 63V
Paint: 568 - 30517
L31/M21/GV4


Reply author: hx-sandman
Replied on: 01/04/2010 2:00:55 PM
Message:

Ive also got this one recorded and not sure which code Ive copied incorrectly
Model: HZ8WM70
Body:393056A
Trim: 1934 - 67V
Paint: 567 - 30527
Vin 8m7orhj592649z
CHassis AHZ00076M
1950kg
Placard 9946866

Could be Dynasty Gold Met or Atlantis Blue Met. depending on which I copied incorrectly


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/04/2010 2:12:21 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

Could be borderline for post 11/78
Model: HZ8WM70 XX7
Body:468187B
Trim: 1926 - 63V
Paint: 568 - 30517
L32/M20/GV4

Model: HZ8WM70
Body:422880A
Trim: 1926 - 63V
Paint: 568 - 30517
L31/M21/GV4



Both of these are right on the changeover time. Im pretty sure with the 11/78 paint update vehicles the C code trim came in as well. Id like to know more about the second one though as I dont have it recorded and would like to see if its a Sandman. I do have other pre 11/78 1926 painted examples (with V code trim), but none with C code trim.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/04/2010 2:19:15 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman

Ive also got this one recorded and not sure which code Ive copied incorrectly
Model: HZ8WM70
Body:393056A
Trim: 1934 - 67V
Paint: 567 - 30527
Vin 8m7orhj592649z
CHassis AHZ00076M
1950kg
Placard 9946866

Could be Dynasty Gold Met or Atlantis Blue Met. depending on which I copied incorrectly



Bugger! Would be good if it was 1936 paint (Dysnasty Gold) as I dont have one of them. That is the second oldest Dandenong HZ Sandman ive yet recorded. I have another with a PSN about 75 numbers earlier.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 17/04/2010 4:47:52 PM
Message:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/holden-hx-sandman-panelvan-id-tags_W0QQitemZ290425951312QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:AU:102

Warren

another Wakker trying to sell sandman plates on 3bay thought you might want details for sandman register..




Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 17/04/2010 5:29:04 PM
Message:

Yes you do. XX7 on the BODY plate is a dead giveaway!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mike81973
Replied on: 18/04/2010 6:20:25 PM
Message:

Hi,
very interesting topic.
I just had a look at my old HQ ute and have found the following;

5/ 74
Bucket seats
M20 4 speed

HQ 80280
body 431025 M
trim 1885 - 39B
Paint 568 - 15894
8M80RDJ431025
GVM 4850
Chassis EH 25738 M

What is the story with Melbourne built utes?

I also have a HJ PV wreck that I am not sure about
could anyone give me any Idea if it is a Sandman or not?

8M70LFL338112J
3 / 76
BHJ51644A
GVM 1860

HJWM70
body 184204 - A
trim 1896- 64V
Paint 567- 15942
eng L20 Trans M20 Axle GV7

Any help appreciated
Mike81973

Purpul Police


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 18/04/2010 6:25:45 PM
Message:

Mike, either could be Sandmans. Look for original console mounts on both and full length headlining attachment strip on the HJ.

Not sure what you mean about the story with Melbourne built utes?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mike81973
Replied on: 18/04/2010 11:05:57 PM
Message:

Hi again,
I thought that the M on the HQ might stand for Melbourne, were Sandmans built in Melbourne, and if so what would be the identification detals of theses?
The ute is a Belmont ute by the numbers, I seem to recall that they mainly had 161 engines in Belmonts? not 253s like this one.

I have not had the carpet out of the ute but it appears to never had a centre consol, I know when they had bench seats they did not have any form of consol, but I dont recall if any 4 speeds came without consols or not.
It also does not have sports instruments did the early Sandmans have sports instruments?

Mike81973



Purpul Police


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 19/04/2010 07:58:17 AM
Message:

Hi Mike.

There are many variations in Sandman equipment levels between the 4 model series, but AFAIK every Sandman made got a centre console & GTS instruments.

Dr Terry

_______________________________________

The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/04/2010 08:11:17 AM
Message:

Dr Terry is right, every Sandman had GTS instruments and centre console. In HQ and HJ, option M11 (centre console) was a component of the XX7 package. You couldnt get M11 on any other commercial. You could get a seat separatoe (D55) which used the same rear console bracket but only M11 had the front bracket forward of the shifter.

Yes the Dandenong, Melbourne plant built Sandmans, and for HQ and HJ most of those I have recorded are utes. Dandenong assembled its own ute bodies but built its vans from Adelaide bodies.
Most Sandmans appear to have been V8 models by what I have recorded, but you are correct most HQ Belmonts had 6 cylinders but not 161, they were 173 or 202. However in HQ a 6cyl Belmont ute (180) is a different model to a V8 Belmont (280), and the standard engine for a V8 Belmont is a 253.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rodney
Replied on: 19/04/2010 10:49:46 AM
Message:

Hello just thought I would try and post some photos of our new van we bought from Wagga NSW, it had been sheded and had two owners...still have manual in glovebox in mint condition...included ID tags for you to include in your statistics

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y315/jennie285/Sandman%20Pics/Photo0221.jpg
http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y315/jennie285/Madiera%20Red%20Sandman/DSC00855.jpg
http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y315/jennie285/Sandman%20Pics/Sandman%20id/Photo0218.jpg


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/04/2010 11:20:34 AM
Message:

I already have the details off this van. Very nice unrestored survivor, but shame about the side windows. It is the ONLY 1978 plated Pagewood Sandman I have yet recorded. Could even be the last if it was built in very late May 1978 as Pagewood stopped ute and van construction in mid June 1978.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rodney
Replied on: 19/04/2010 6:17:35 PM
Message:

Yes it is a shame about the windows, but you cant have everything..lol. although they are not very popular, side windows, in October 1976 were an additional $86 on top of base rate. (custom vans and trucks No2 summer 1976 just bought from ebay and a hive of info)a 1976 sandman with all options cost $8095. There were a couple of broken things, which I picked up at a wreckers in Forbes today, one air vent, and a new grille...Needs new exhaust,windscreen, some brake cups, but nothing to much of a problem. No rust, just faded paint and scratched decals....Interesting to know it could have been one of the last built in Dandanong,we used to own a 78 HS but know nothing about it now, chassis number BHZ 17242B we believe that this vehicle was rolled and written off by the next owner in about sept 86. If you have this engine number maybe it has been resurected.
Engine number is very faded and may have been QR999109...if you can shed any light on this we would love to know


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/04/2010 6:59:17 PM
Message:

Pagewood build, not Dandenong.

I dont have BHZ17242B recorded unfortunately.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rodney
Replied on: 19/04/2010 7:03:39 PM
Message:

Oh okay I was told Dandenong I will consult the expert who told me Dandenong....thanks for your input...okay she must have really died :( I really wish she had not been written off.....


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/04/2010 7:16:22 PM
Message:

The S on the end of the chassis number tells you it was built in the Pagewood, Sydney plant. The body was constructed in the Elizabeth, Adelaide plant. AFAIK Dandenong had stopped van production by 1978. Utes stopped during HX.
There isnt a Sandman expert. Thats why I wrote my original web page and an currently writing a book on them so that people will have a point of reference.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mike81973
Replied on: 21/04/2010 12:10:01 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Dr Terry is right, every Sandman had GTS instruments and centre console. In HQ and HJ, option M11 (centre console) was a component of the XX7 package. You couldnt get M11 on any other commercial. You could get a seat separatoe (D55) which used the same rear console bracket but only M11 had the front bracket forward of the shifter.

Yes the Dandenong, Melbourne plant built Sandmans, and for HQ and HJ most of those I have recorded are utes. Dandenong assembled its own ute bodies but built its vans from Adelaide bodies.
Most Sandmans appear to have been V8 models by what I have recorded, but you are correct most HQ Belmonts had 6 cylinders but not 161, they were 173 or 202. However in HQ a 6cyl Belmont ute (180) is a different model to a V8 Belmont (280), and the standard engine for a V8 Belmont is a 253.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



Thanks for that, I should have given you the chassis number of this 5 / 74 ute, it is EH 25738 M ( it is not one I have seen before?)

Mike81973

Purpul Police


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/04/2010 07:11:52 AM
Message:

Mike

EHQ25738M will be the number.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 21/04/2010 9:01:44 PM
Message:

Interesting HG on ebay at the minute http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290427097548#description

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends its lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/04/2010 07:04:07 AM
Message:

I saw that last night. HK-HG V8 vans are very rare. This is only a low spec one (253 3spd) but still scarce as the proverbial. Youd be getting really excited if it was a factory 307 4spd HK or 308 4sp HT/G!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: AN5590
Replied on: 27/04/2010 10:42:53 PM
Message:

Great forum - have been checking my old HQ Kingswood ute, have had it for nearly 30 years. Didnt realise it was likely to be a Sandman until I came across this forum and your MonaroParts site Bryon. It is Acacia Ridge built with XX7 on main plate, L31, M21, GV2, 5/75 build and seating capacity 2 and chrome yellow colour. Will send you body/chassis - what other numbers do I need to send you to confirm Sandman or not? Do you have many HQ Sandman Utes recorded? Thanks Iain


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 28/04/2010 07:00:30 AM
Message:

Iain
Would love the numbers as HQ Sandman utes are very scarce. Send me all ID details off the 3 x plates but only the build date, chassis number and seating acapacity off the ADR plate.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: AN5590
Replied on: 29/04/2010 9:55:23 PM
Message:

Thanks for the info Byron - looks like another HQ Sandman ute to the list.

This ute has some features that would not line up with standard Sandman (if there is such a thing!) - GTS badges on guards (with Kingswood badges!), black HQ grille with GTS badge and GTS badge in steering wheel and ribbed metal sill panel covers (as per HQ Statesman) and HQ Premier shield badges on B pillars, and clock in the GTS dash.

I assume from your info that these are most likely to have been dealer fitted - car was apparently a specific factory order but never had any doco to support this.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 30/04/2010 07:22:57 AM
Message:

As per may email Iain, either dealer or owner fitted for all the GTS and Premier badges, plus the Premier/Statesman sill strips.
Also as I mentioned, close to the best Sandman of the lot to own - HQ Kingswood ute in 308 manual in Chrome Yellow. They dont come much more desirable than that!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: LHQ-253
Replied on: 30/04/2010 5:51:37 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837


Also as I mentioned, close to the best Sandman of the lot to own - HQ Kingswood ute in 308 manual in Chrome Yellow. They dont come much more desirable than that!

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Or the same spec in Barbados would have to be equally as desirable. Unless you dont like green!


Reply author: rufus HJ
Replied on: 11/05/2010 8:32:32 PM
Message:

Hi Guys,
I am new to this website.
I have just purchased a HJ Sandman Ute (8WM80) and need some help indentifying the engine code.
It currently has a 308 so eng code should be L32 but instead is D1.

Any Help??


Reply author: rufus HJ
Replied on: 11/05/2010 8:39:39 PM
Message:

Oh I forgot to mention the Chassis number is:
8M80DEJ490660J


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 11/05/2010 8:56:54 PM
Message:

It was originally a 173ci 6cylinder which lines up with your engine code of LD1 and the D in the VIN number (which you have called chassis number). This is the standard engine for most of HJ Sandman, but it most likely isn't a Sandman as a HJ HOLDEN Sandman ute is very rare (most were Kingswood Sandman) and 6cyl Sandman is very rare also especially 173ci examples. I've recorded hundreds of HQ-HZ Sandmans and only 1 x with a 173, primarily as it was only available for basically 1974 and 1975 and not available on Kingswood. It could just be a very rare Sandman though. Note that 308 is L31 not L32. Being an August 1975 build it's right on the changeover when XX7 became XU3 and derated XX7 was introduced, so the GVW should be 2155kg and of no help. So to even be a hope of being a Sandman it must be a 2 seat capacity, M20 or M40 gearbox with floor shift and have a floor console front mount in front of the shifter.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: rufus HJ
Replied on: 12/05/2010 7:14:04 PM
Message:

Hi Thanks for your help.

It has a M15 and a GV7 (originally) and is def a ute.

I will have a better look in the weekend and supply some more details.

Are all the Utes Sandmans if their model num is HJ8WM80 and boot num 490660M?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 12/05/2010 9:07:48 PM
Message:

Not a Sandman. M15 is 3spd manual. HJ8WM80 just means HJ HOLDEN utility.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: gtrpu
Replied on: 26/05/2010 8:54:26 PM
Message:

OK...the time has come to put my tags up for critique.
I have, what I believe to be, a HJ Sandman van.It should be a 6 cylinder, 4 speed Jamaica Lime van....I think


Tags are as follows

Model - HJ8WM70
Body No - 145327-A
Trim - 1905-19V
Paint - 568-17342
Eng - L20
Trans - M20
RRaxle - GV7
Built - 03/75
Chassis No - BHJ16984A
GVW - 2155kg
Seating Cap - 2

Let the games begin.............




Reply author: gtrpu
Replied on: 26/05/2010 8:57:03 PM
Message:

oops..forgot the small tag.......

8M70LEL3*****J


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/05/2010 9:01:41 PM
Message:

I do have that vehicle recorded as a possible Sandman. There is no way to tell from its ID though. You'll have to go looking elsewhere on the body and chassis for signs of Sandman. Extended headlining is your best indicator though, but not a guarantee.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: gtrpu
Replied on: 26/05/2010 9:05:44 PM
Message:

I bought it as an empty shell...and I do mean empty.
It has the rear hoodling panel with the teeth on it and hood bow holes in the cargo bay. Also has interior light switch holes in the front door pillars if that helps.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 26/05/2010 10:28:25 PM
Message:

Certainly sounds like one.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 28/05/2010 8:49:52 PM
Message:

Did The Hz sandman ever leave the showroom with GTS Guards ????(
My Hz Ute (XX7) has them fitted and i have no real way of telling if they have been fitted after market or factory ... It also came with N67 wheels...


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 28/05/2010 11:47:15 PM
Message:

The GTS guard thing is a mystery. I had heard that they were used up on Sandman after GTS finished but none have come to light yet. To have N67 rims it'd be a late 1978 onwards.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 12/06/2010 2:29:09 PM
Message:

Byron, how many Brisbane built Sandmans do you have recorded with XX7 stamped on the plate and build dates of 1/74 and 2/74?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/06/2010 2:51:40 PM
Message:

2 x 2/74, no 1/74. 1 x 12/73, 1 x 1/74 and 1 x 2/74 suspected as Sandman without XX7 but will never know if they are or not.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: vanman
Replied on: 15/06/2010 8:01:15 PM
Message:

hx sandman ute on ebay
is the MODEL 8WM80XR normal
I thought it should be HX8WM80R




Reply author: HZute-efi-VS5L
Replied on: 15/06/2010 8:40:08 PM
Message:

has a non matching chassis by the sounds though. Im waiting on a reply.

_______________________________________
www.stickthisdecals.com.au


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/06/2010 9:10:55 PM
Message:

Those plates are 100% normal for a Sydney built HX ute. Remember it's a Sydney build, not Adelaide.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: sscott
Replied on: 07/07/2010 3:14:24 PM
Message:

Hi,
Does anyone know when Holden produced its first van with metallic paint? I'm trying to prove a mate either right or wrong.
Thanks,
Stuart in Qld


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 07/07/2010 4:54:59 PM
Message:

Maybe FJ by special order?

From memory the earliest HQ I have recorded in metallic is 12/73 but there were probably earlier one-off examples.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 22/07/2010 01:29:38 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HK1837

Terry, yes for the quarter strips, but the doors, guards and tailgate strips have holes through the panels for the end clips on each strip where a screw holds them from behind. The middlle clips on the panels have studs. I think this is the same from HK eg Kingswood side strips? Plus when you remove paint it is normally obvious where the spot welded studs have been removed by grinder versus if it had none to begin with.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?



So HZ panelvans also would have had these as identifiers if they were kingswoods, but if a HZ panelvan didn't it wasn't a kingswood, then could it only be a sandman??


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2010 4:37:35 PM
Message:

Kingswood vans only existed for HX and HZ, I'm not near my stuff at the moment so I'm not sure about strips on HX and HZ Kingsood vans. HOLDEN HX and HZ Kingswood vans don't have strips either whether they are XX7/XU3 or not if that is what you mean?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 25/09/2010 10:41:58 AM
Message:

hi does any one know if the seat winders on an hj sandman are the same as the ones used on the hq sandman

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 25/09/2010 12:06:13 PM
Message:

HQ Sandman seats are the same as any other HQ Belmont (or Kingswood for Kingswood XX7) with buckets. Same for HJ. I don't think HQ and HJ are the same though, seats are very different. Best bet is to ask the guys at mysandman.com.au who are actively restoring these models.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 26/09/2010 09:30:52 AM
Message:

done thanks

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 29/09/2010 01:01:29 AM
Message:

5/74
4850lbs
seats 2
ehq 47813a
HQ80270
110105A
1880 -39b
567-15822
L31 m21 GV2

COULD THIS BE A SANDMAN ?

ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 29/09/2010 02:00:52 AM
Message:

if i was standing over it without looking up the paint code numbers or anything else i would buy it as i think it is one.


Tuning for Holley carbs in Perth? PM me.


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 29/09/2010 02:02:01 AM
Message:

ok just looked up paint code, its cognac metallic. V8 belmont ute too
thats a good thing....
B trim code?, tick Y.

all good.



Tuning for Holley carbs in Perth? PM me.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/09/2010 06:10:00 AM
Message:

I'd say yes. I have never recorded a HQ Belmont commercial in metallic paint outside of the Brisbane plant that I could prove was NOT a Sandman. Only Brisbane appears so far to have broken that rule. Very rare thing to, not many HQ or HJ Belmont Sandman utes recorded at all.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: t-dog
Replied on: 29/09/2010 07:38:25 AM
Message:

its a panel van and its going cheep at $4300 on carsales.com.au right now i havnt got any more room with 7 cars or id grab it


ooowwww yeh! thats what im talkin bout!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 29/09/2010 1:18:19 PM
Message:

Is too. Not sure why I thought it was a ute. Makes no difference anyway, I still reckon its a Sandman.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: adam PERTH
Replied on: 30/09/2010 07:38:41 AM
Message:

[quote]Originally posted by t-dog

its a panel van and its going cheep at $4300 on carsales.com.au right now i havnt got any more room with 7 cars or id grab it


7 cars?, pppfftt. your not trying hard enough!
P.S. frank is here and says hello.

Tuning for Holley carbs in Perth? PM me.


Reply author: CrustyHK
Replied on: 30/09/2010 11:24:14 PM
Message:

Dont the HQ vans have vents behind the doors? This one on carsales doesn't


Reply author: Mr.Jones
Replied on: 30/09/2010 11:47:58 PM
Message:

Mid 74 the vents disappeared, haven't found an exact date although I think there was some discussion on it in this thread.

Leroy

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends it's lunatics"
Voltaire


Reply author: cafiem
Replied on: 23/01/2011 08:45:35 AM
Message:

Hi all,
Model: HJ8WN80
Trim: 1904-14V
Eng: L32
Trans: M20
Seating: 2
Bulid 05-75
GVM 2200 kg
Has GTS options.
Melbourne build code.
Casino blue HJ Kingswood based sandman ute?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cameron.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/01/2011 4:17:48 PM
Message:

Cameron

I replied to you via PM

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


Reply author: nzstato
Replied on: 15/03/2011 3:31:09 PM
Message:

This genuine? (looks like it is)

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=360706241

One of you buggers from ozzy has just bought it.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/03/2011 3:44:26 PM
Message:

Yes it is appears to be a genuine NZ delivered HZ Sandman. I would have bought it if I'd seen it, despite it being a van and not a ute simply because of its rarity and being a TH400 example.


Reply author: nzstato
Replied on: 15/03/2011 3:55:48 PM
Message:

Someone got a bargin then? Especially since our dollar is so poor.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 15/03/2011 8:01:53 PM
Message:

Not really a bargain, as it'll cost about $AUS7k to get it here. But still a good buy if you want a HZ Sandman van.


Reply author: will.co
Replied on: 21/03/2011 5:01:43 PM
Message:

Hello and thanks for the great site,

I have recently purchased what i hope to be a HQ Sandman van, it does not have the xx7 stamp though and i was hoping to ask what info is required to verify or at lest get an opinion on the validity of this vgc condition vehicle?
All help is greatly appreciated.


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 21/03/2011 5:13:20 PM
Message:

The same details that are above 6 or 7 posts above,,not all sandmans had XX7 ,its a myth that people seem to believe ,there has been that much said about it that people think it has to be on there.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/03/2011 7:05:19 PM
Message:

Ben

From any other plant I'd say ot most likely was. However even if it was a Sandman, it is an Acacia Ridge build and XX7 is missing therefore you'll never convince anyone it is, and it will always be seen and valued as just a 4spd Belmont van. Metallic paint was supposed to be Sandman only in HQ Belmont, however the odd Acacia Rideg built example has come up. This is probably one of those. I've PM'd you something to look at too.


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 21/03/2011 7:57:16 PM
Message:

Ben,Before you get too upset, check out the link on the first post by Byron (up the top ..tags)it explains alot of what we are saying and is a great site too.!

here you go.

http://www.monaroparts.com/sandman.htm#HQ


Reply author: will.co
Replied on: 22/03/2011 12:36:43 PM
Message:

Thanks for the comments and assistance guys!
If on the other site (Monaroparts) it says that some did not get printed with xx7 from acacia ridge, is there any other way of proving validity to the car if its not there, as the example states on the other site that the car is a sandman but has no xx7 stamp?
Why did this happen, is there anything on a hq tyre placard that would help??
This car that i am looking at is magnificent and any help would be appreciated in proving the glory of this beast!
Is there anyone at the acaci rodge plant that i could call opr Holden....ghrrrrrrrrr i need to delve further to get proof for this car!!
Help me o oracles of the Samdman world!!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/03/2011 1:14:00 PM
Message:

Ben

I wrote the stuff on the monaroparts site. As above, even if it IS a Sandman it will never be seen as one, so pay accordingly for it. There were mistakes made so it well could be one, but without XX7 on a Brisbane build it is just like a $100 note with a zero missing on the identifier. The stuff I sent you to identify is the only possible way to pick a 4spd bucket seat Belmont van from a Belmont XX7 van. As you could see it is no guarantee though as anything could have happened. Getting in contact with the Company formerly known as GMH will get you nowhere either as the original build records they have will tell you that you have a V8 4spd HQ panel van. Tyre placards are no help either as HQ Sandmans were identical in tyres to other HQ's.
At the end of the day you have to remember a HQ V8 XX7 was nothing special, basically the equivalent of a VG-VSIII SV8 ute. Does a VG S ute excite you? Do you think Holden today really care how many VG S utes they made or to even have the knowledge to identify one? The same applies to an old optioned HQ commercial, it was simply a marketing package to sell more vehicles into a niche market. A HQ Sandman was simply a HQ commercial with a 5 x otherwise optionable items (M11, M20, XS6, U21 and N66), 4 x feature changes (GTS bezels, steering wheel, fenders, and 140MPH speedo), some paint blackouts and a box with white or black stripes in it (plus an extra feature change on a HQ Kingswood ute). If no further options were selected you got a 173 6cyl, 4 wheel drum brakes, rubber mats and no armrests. No records of them were kept, they were seen as no different to any other option package like Vacationer, XV4 Kingswood, SS Belmont, Taxi etc. It only matters today because we care.
So in short, if the one you are looking at is a magnificent vehicle, buy it, but don't pay Sandman $ for it because you'll never sell it for Sandman $.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/03/2011 2:22:21 PM
Message:

A very original V8 4spd will easily pull close to $10k. If it is a Sandman then maybe $25k or more. If that is the van in your profile picture it certainly looks like one, if it has all the specific bits on it like the U21 harness, 140MPH speedo, original GTS guards, N66 spare wheel hoist and it looks like a very original vehicle then you may well have one without the XX7 on the plate. Buy it and treasure it.


Reply author: will.co
Replied on: 22/03/2011 4:00:29 PM
Message:

Sorry but can you explain a u21 harness...is it a reference to the dash...any pics available


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/03/2011 5:12:44 PM
Message:

U21 is the full instrument dash, and in HQ the body harness is different to accommodate tacho and ammeter. Quite obvious by the ammeter wires as they are pretty big. Won't help you hugely though as this was an option on Belmont, it was standard on Sandman though.


Reply author: will.co
Replied on: 23/03/2011 09:32:17 AM
Message:

I feel that with all the work done investigating this car that i now have purchased a HQ Sandman Aquamarine 253 without the xx7 from Brisbane in amazing condition, im so happy with the purchase and want to thank all for their advice.

Im not stressed about the stamp cause it looks, feels and smells like a sandman that im happy enough to buy it as one!

From the fluted gaurds, Sandman decals, sandman steering wheel, roof lining that only goes to the the end of passenger area and all the matching numbers and engine codes to boot alongside original 1974 number plates and sales slip from Holden that confirms that all the numbers are the originals from when it was purchased.
The car as it is, is rare and because it is so original and in such good nick that ill buy it and cherish it as you said Byron...

Cheers boys!


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 23/03/2011 12:52:20 PM
Message:

I didn't get any photos through though.


Reply author: will.co
Replied on: 23/03/2011 1:18:58 PM
Message:

came back as undeliverable to monaro parts so ill try again


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 23/03/2011 3:33:22 PM
Message:

Good call,Ben.


Reply author: will.co
Replied on: 26/03/2011 7:42:51 PM
Message:

Hey Jim or ayone else interested i went ahead and bought the HQ so if you wanna have a look heres the link

http://www.mysandman.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=1413

Thanks for your help


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 26/03/2011 10:27:15 PM
Message:

Not a member of Blockers forum(dont have a sandy ,just a HQ van),but the small pic looks good,P.S.Anyone thats going to buy a "sandman"will/should do their homework(as I did) and will quickly realize that not all had the XX7 stamp,in fact most don't.I know brissy should have ,but they even stamped the long tags wrong and no XX7 on that one either!!(lj torana stamping).!!(Byron's site)Everyone has those days....any way ..good luck!


Reply author: will.co
Replied on: 26/03/2011 10:40:26 PM
Message:

Nice Jim...Nice..
Could you please tell me if your HQ has the courtesy light switches in the door if you get a chance?

Thanks for your support of the purchase and also a second opinon.

Legend!


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 27/03/2011 09:12:15 AM
Message:

IT HAD the holes but no switches (it does now)the best way to tell if YOUR van is a sandman is above the back window there will be a long toothy kind of thing ,these were welded from "inside" the panel ...check that or for marks of that,it held the full length roof lining ...heres a pic.HALF WAY DOWN THE PAGE courtesy of Byron,I THINK THEY DID THIS ON HQ BUT BYRON WILL KNOW MORE.
P.S...If your wiring loom has 2 white door light switch wires going to you main loom and these wires are factory fitted(as in not joined before entering the loom)thats another clue that not many people look at.

http://www.monaroparts.com/sandman.htm


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 27/03/2011 09:24:07 AM
Message:

P.S..Thanks Byron for all that incredible information it always makes healthy discussions and is the longest ,most read post I've ever seen in a forum!..jim


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 27/03/2011 10:38:17 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by jim

the best way to tell if YOUR van is a sandman is above the back window there will be a long toothy kind of thing ,these were welded from "inside" the panel ...check that or for marks of that,it held the full length roof lining ...heres a pic.HALF WAY DOWN THE PAGE courtesy of Byron,I THINK THEY DID THIS ON HQ BUT BYRON WILL KNOW MORE.



Jim, HQ Sandman didn't have the full headlining. HJ onwards got the full headlining.


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 27/03/2011 10:46:26 AM
Message:

Worth a try!!...lol,thats why I said "think",wasn't real sure..thanxz
how about the "wiring " comment?sounds right to me.


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 27/03/2011 10:57:00 AM
Message:

According to Byrons info only the Kingswood utes got courtesy lights in HQ and HJ Sandman. The vans and utes that were base models basically got what was standard on a base model + the GTS Sandman bits.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 27/03/2011 11:13:57 AM
Message:

Correct. It was HX and HZ Sandmans that were effectively Holden plated Kingswoods. HX and HZ Sandman probably would have been based upon Kingswood if it wasn't for the side and tailgate strips, as they got most Kingswood features plus some GTS frontal treatments. HQ and HJ Bemont/Holden Sandman were very much still the model they were based upon hence no interior light switches unless optioned.


Reply author: jim
Replied on: 27/03/2011 12:58:46 PM
Message:

Byron ,surely "HQ sandmans" would of had interior lights on their options?I think its another "clue" to add to his list.yes/no?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 27/03/2011 3:53:21 PM
Message:

No. They had an interior light, but only got the door switches standard if Kingswood ute based (unless otherwise optioned).


Reply author: nzstato
Replied on: 12/04/2011 05:46:30 AM
Message:

Appears genuine but a wee bit far away from me to take a look sadly

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Holden/sandman/auction-368360942.htm


Reply author: Absinth
Replied on: 14/04/2011 12:01:12 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by nzstato

Appears genuine but a wee bit far away from me to take a look sadly

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Holden/sandman/auction-368360942.htm



There is a good "how not to fit a rear sway bar to your van" pic. U bolts straight over the rear brake lines......

Very cheap Sandy at the moment, wish it was here in Aust.


Reply author: nzstato
Replied on: 27/04/2011 06:14:28 AM
Message:

It went for $855, that's close to a fair price since it needed alot of work and didn't come with all of the hard/expensive-to-get items.


Reply author: Sandman
Replied on: 18/05/2011 9:58:52 PM
Message:

How many HQ Sandman utes do you have listed now? Mine might be finished this year, after 6 years getting painted. (Never tell a panelbeater your not in a hurry)


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/05/2011 05:34:30 AM
Message:

Not many, from memory less than 10. I'll look them up when I get a chance.


Reply author: HZpanelvanandsedan
Replied on: 18/10/2011 10:27:38 PM
Message:

We can make it to page 60. Soooo...what gear box options does a sandman 253 manual have?


Reply author: Dr Terry
Replied on: 19/10/2011 07:52:03 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HZpanelvanandsedan

what gear box options does a sandman 253 manual have?


I believe that the M20 manual was standard, with the M21 & M40 (T-bar) as options.

Maybe Byron could elaborate.

Dr Terry


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 19/10/2011 8:12:41 PM
Message:

Even less than that as far as any evidence I have for HJ-HZ, 3.05:1 (1st) M20 as standard and optional M40 is about it. Console shift would come as standard regardless. I'm pretty sure HQ is the same but I don't have the HQ ordering procedure or similar stuff listing HQ Sandman (as it was such a short lived option package in HQ). So you could option M21 behind 253 in passenger vehicles but not on commercial as far as I am aware, if you could it'd only be in HQ.
Sometimes I find I need more than one piece of evidence though as often GMH literature makes mistakes and Dr Terry might have some evidence I don't. For example HQ Sandman sales brochure lists a 3.05:1 1st gear M20 as standard for 173 and 202 engine. However all the 6cyl examples I have recorded have M22 on the BODY plate. HQ ordering procedure when I looked at one last states that the 3.74:1 M20 box (later called M22) is standard. Hence as an example why i'm sometimes cagey on some stuff!


Reply author: hootus
Replied on: 14/01/2012 7:27:52 PM
Message:

hi guys, i was wondering if someone could help me i am about to purchase a 05 78 hz van and i think it is a sandman but not 100% could someone decifer the plates please they read model hz 8wm70
body 414818 a
trim 1928 19v
paint 568 80519
eng l31 trans m21 axl gv4
vin plate reads 8m70thl4148132
seating 2
thanks greg


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 14/01/2012 9:40:34 PM
Message:

It isn't a Sandman, but looks pretty close. You have mistyped a couple of digits too. The last digit on the VIN is a Z, and the second last has to match the BODY number (3 or 8, one is wrong). Check that it is actually 19V and not 18V too. Is the GVW 1950kg or 2200kg?


Reply author: Shearer
Replied on: 30/04/2013 10:02:38 PM
Message:

Here's a 6 cyl HJ Sandman

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1974-Holden-Sandman-Ute-/261209218815?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item3cd1485eff&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1195

It will be interesting to see what the plates <cough> sorry... 'wreck' sells for.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 01/05/2013 08:00:56 AM
Message:

Very rare Sandman, being one with 14V trim, but being a 6cyl not very desirable. 14V (Dove Grey on Kingswood, Grey on Holden) is not very common at all especially on Sandman.


Reply author: Killa
Replied on: 20/07/2013 1:58:38 PM
Message:

Am looking at purchasing a rolling chassis van HZ , it has XU3 stamped plate with 2200 GVM . Are all XU3 stamped vehicles a Sandman ? Having difficulty with hood lining clips etc but worth investigating i feel. I owned an original HX Aquarius coloured Sandy back in the 80's and just can't seem to get em out of my blood.

Thanks, Killa.


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 22/07/2013 04:57:00 AM
Message:

XU3 is a Sandman, it is the original Sandman special vehicle package, same basic specification as the original HQ and early HJ Sandmans. The Sandman with de-rated GVW came later in HJ. However the BODY plate stating XU3 simply means the original vehicle was a Sandman, the body may not be original to the tags.


Reply author: Borchz
Replied on: 09/11/2013 3:44:06 PM
Message:

Wondering if this is where we can put on info on possible sand mans?


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 09/11/2013 5:08:20 PM
Message:

Yes.


Reply author: Sandman78
Replied on: 21/02/2014 7:19:27 PM
Message:

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to find out some information about my van, as I am starting to think about changing it back to factory colours with stickers.

I have done a lot of research to try to identify it as a HZ sandman, but it seems like that is not really possible. It seems that we can say without a doubt, that a certain car 'is not', but it is near impossible to say that a certain car 'is'.

The car has a full headlining, gts dash and nose cone, and has the courtesy light switch connected from the front doors and of course sticker kit.

The below information is copied from its identification plates.

Model HZ8WM70
Body No. 435406-A
Trim 1934-23C
Paint 567-30525
Eng L31
Trans M21
RR Axle GV4

Holden HZ Panel Van
12-78 BHZ 40755A
GVW 2000 kg
Seating Cap. 2

8M70TJL435406Z

So from the identification plates, I believe it was built in Adelaide as a Commercial Van with a 308 engine, 4 spd gearbox with a 3.36:1 Diff. I believe the Adelaide built sandman's did not have any further identification codes (like XX7 or XU3).

If anyone can correct me or provide me with any further information that may help me identify my van as a Sandman, that would be greatly appreciated. I would also like to know any information about the paint and trim colours.

Thanks


Reply author: HK1837
Replied on: 21/02/2014 8:48:27 PM
Message:

I can tell you for certain that that ID originated on a HZ XX7 Sandman panel van.

1934 is Atlantis Blue Metallic.
63C is Buckskin vinyl.

Chassis number aligns fine with the PSN/Body number.

As staged the plates are off an Elizabeth bodied, and Elizabeth assembled van.


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