Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Take the time to read our Privacy Policy.

2 Pages12>
HK1837 Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 22 March 2018 7:57:41 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
50 years today March 22 1968 when GMH first widely distributed the Monaro name in Engineering Technical Documents.

Monaro replaced Kingswood Coupe.
Monaro GTS replaced GTS coupe.
Brougham replaced Premier Brougham (was an option pack on Premier prior).
Kingswood Utility becomes 80380 (was an option pack on Belmont ute prior).

The real date will probably be in February when the revised pages of the Engineering Technical Specs were first penned, but today 50 years ago is when the whole document was distributed.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 22 March 2018 6:52:20 PM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,354

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 26 post(s)
Memo on 28/2 calls them Kingswood and GTS coupe.

Amazing how fast that has moved around the net since posted on Monday.

Lets see how quick the next post takes to get here?

Warren
HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 22 March 2018 7:29:40 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Where did it come from Warren? It was sent to me yesterday, but I saw it or similar stuff a fair while ago.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 22 March 2018 7:45:22 PM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,354

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 26 post(s)
I posted it on Monaro 50th anniversary cruise facebook page on Monday.

It comes from the engineering report memos that are at the back, but the other memo is in the release data which shows they change the release date due to an A.J.C. touring car trophy round being held at Warwick Farm on the Sunday.

Warren

Edited by user Thursday, 22 March 2018 7:46:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 22 March 2018 7:58:44 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Must have been sent to me lifted off Facebook - I don't/won't use Facebook.

The pages in the Engineering Dept Technical Data Section (specifically 0-1) dated 2/68 is the one that shows the name change.

From memory that AJC meeting ended up getting moved to the same time as the release anyway due to petrol strikes! Petrol strikes was how Charlie McCarron ended up with my yellow GTS327, he did a fuel deal with Sydney dealers at the dealer release a week before the press release to get the car.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 22 March 2018 9:55:13 PM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,354

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 26 post(s)
I have H62 dated 14/2 then H63 with Monaro name change dated 22/3. It does say that it is dated 2/68 and the memo I have is dated 26/2 that is still calling for the Kingswood and GTS coupe. A.J. Teal is author.

You are right about the AJC meeting.
Sandaro Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, 23 March 2018 3:09:12 PM(UTC)
Sandaro

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 305

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 33 time(s) in 32 post(s)
To put it in human baby terms, is it really the birthday or celebrating the conception (or perhaps 12 week scan when you discover the sex).

The real birthday IMHO would be later in the year when the first production cars rolled off the line
HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, 23 March 2018 4:15:01 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
It is the date where everyone that mattered became aware that the new HK coupe was to be called Monaro.

First HK coupe bodies were built in September 1967 and assembled into cars in early April 1968. The first GTS was assembled around the same time and this is the car used in most press and promotional images for GTS and GTS327. First GTS327 was later April into early May 1968. The first regular production cars (as opposed to restricted production) were later in June 1968.

So you really cannot use anything other than 22nd March 1968 date. The Official Release on 21st July is like the official opening of a bridge that has been in service already, as the car was already unveiled to dealers in the week before and revealed to the public in the Age. Plus there was a Press drive day at Lang Lang on 16th.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, 23 March 2018 6:12:18 PM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,354

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 26 post(s)
The embargo date is July 22 and yes the convention started on the 21st, but the official date should be 22/7.

The press test day at Lang Lang was only done as the date was put back, had the press date been the 15th then there would have been no day at Lang Lang.

Production always starts well before release. But these pre production and early production normally vary in specification to the "normal" cars.
HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 23 March 2018 6:21:44 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
The Age reported on Monaro and Brougham on 16th IIRC, well in advance of embargo date. You can see the articles online.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, 23 March 2018 8:48:48 PM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,354

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 26 post(s)
And Motor reported a coupe well before that and Wheels stated at HK release in January that the coupe was coming because the reclining buckets in the red V8 Kingswood tilted forward.

Also the article you talk about was on the 17th and the Sydney Morning Herald printed information on the 14th. But none of this information came from official sources, many were spy photos.
HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Saturday, 24 March 2018 7:45:45 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
It doesn't really matter where the source was, the fact that the Monaro name was first made public on 17th July before the official release is the point. The Monaro name was also made widely known in a few parallel events on the 15th to the remainder of GMH people, the dealers (the Sydney event at the Trocadero Ballroom in George St is what my yellow GTS327 was used for). The 22nd July to me is a significant date, but so is 2nd August when the cars officially went on sale, and so is the 16th July when the Press first saw the car. All of these muddle together and no one day stands out as really more significant than the others. Which makes the 22/3/68 - the day the Monaro name was broadly distributed within GMH a standout day. The other day might be the day the first Monaro was assembled which we don't know exactly unfortunately.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#13 Posted : Saturday, 24 March 2018 10:27:07 AM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,354

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 26 post(s)
By that logic then the HK designation was first released in 1965, making 2015 the 50th anniversary of the HK.

The 14th is the date that the Monaro name was released to the public through the Sydney Morning Herald NOT the 17th through the Melbourne age.

Does the release of the name make the "birthday"? We told everyone that if our first born was a boy his name would be Alex 3 months before he was born, so name day to me has nothing to do with "birthday".

As you say though a cars "birthday" can be any number of days. Any of the following could be construed as the "Birth of the car": (consider the first Holden)

1) the day the management decide they are gong to go ahead with the project
2) when the car is designed
3) when the car is named
4) when the first clay is completed
5) when the first prototype is completed
6) when the first car is mass produced
7) when someone inside/outside the organisation passes info to the press and they "leak" the information
8) when the car is OFFICIALLY released
9) when the car goes on sale

For 99.9% of the people the Birthday of the first Holden is the 28th of November 1948, making number 8 the popular choice. I do not think many would see 3 as the most significant, but have been wrong before.

March 22 is when the engineering update was sent out, the name would have been decided on in late February and all departments, that needed to be informed, would have been well before 22/3. These would have been production so that badges could be designed and made, public relations so that brochures could be adjusted etc etc. None of these people would need to rely on the engineering department to complete their work. A great example is engineering update 9/8/68 it has "radius rods added for 81837 model". But we know that the cars at release had them so this shows that the engineering update dates are NOT the time that everyone is first informed.

Edited by user Saturday, 24 March 2018 10:58:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#14 Posted : Saturday, 24 March 2018 11:26:22 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Not the same logic, and you've just mirrored my statements in the first post! It didn't say the birthday of the car, I said "Happy Birthday Monaro". The name Monaro was first widely distributed within GMH by the memo dated 22/3/68, and as I said it would have been applied to the car in February. If the SMH published the Monaro on 14th then there is another day to throw into the mix of when Monaro went public.
So to me the significant dates for Monaro are:

The day Noel Bedford, Max Wilson, John Bagshaw etc decided to call the HK coupe "Monaro".
The date that it was widely publicised within GMH, the 22/3.
The day the first Monaro was assembled.
The Dealer release date 15/7.
The Press test date 16/7 to meet magazine deadlines.
The Press release function on 21/7, and 22/7 which was the driving evaluation.
The official sales date.

To me the only ones of those that can be Birthdays (for Monaro) are 1 or 3 with some claims by 2. I have always viewed the day I got engaged as the day it happened, not the day I told everyone about it.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, 24 March 2018 11:50:35 AM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,354

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 26 post(s)
The 15th was not to meet deadlines, as the September magazine is the one Holden wanted it in. It was for a select number that could not make the 21/22. Those who attended had to have their editor sign a special contract to ensure the embargo was not breached.

Have another date for you to chase.

On 5/7/68 an internal memo states:

"I had a Miss Margaret Monaro aged 24, call me and she was interested to read the name of our new coupe. Her family is of Spanish origins.."

Edited by user Saturday, 24 March 2018 11:51:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, 24 March 2018 1:56:50 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
That is correct, the September DATED magazine issues were the target, hence why the original Surfer's Paradise release was planned for 14-15th. As 21-22st was too late for deadlines for these magazines GMH had to run the event on the 16th, and a lot of the September magazine articles were based upon the 16th, not the actual release. This is where the red GTS327 images come from.

Are you looking for the source of where she "read" the new name? Do you have all the 5-6-7th month 1968 Wheels, Modern Motor, Racing Car News, Australian Motor etc magazines? It might be a slip in there somewhere? You'd think it might be a small mention in a newspaper though that hasn't been uncovered yet?

Edited by user Saturday, 24 March 2018 1:57:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
RigPig Offline
#17 Posted : Sunday, 25 March 2018 5:08:07 PM(UTC)
RigPig

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: in the shed

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 14 time(s) in 13 post(s)
Another early appearance of the name Monaro, left-hand drive (LD) Monaros?
08/03/1968 in the 'HK Series Introductory Sheet' an intro to the HK 'Engineering Parts List'
"I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood" (George Carlin)
HK1837 Offline
#18 Posted : Sunday, 25 March 2018 7:28:29 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Originally Posted by: RigPig Go to Quoted Post
Another early appearance of the name Monaro, left-hand drive (LD) Monaros?
08/03/1968 in the 'HK Series Introductory Sheet' an intro to the HK 'Engineering Parts List'


Cool. You can see the timeline, this closely follows the February dated sheets for the Engineering Technical Specs.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
HK1837 Offline
#19 Posted : Monday, 26 March 2018 3:26:56 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
And Motor reported a coupe well before that and Wheels stated at HK release in January that the coupe was coming because the reclining buckets in the red V8 Kingswood tilted forward.

Also the article you talk about was on the 17th and the Sydney Morning Herald printed information on the 14th. But none of this information came from official sources, many were spy photos.


Warren

Not the 14th as there was no Sydney Morning Herald on a Sunday. I looked in the Sun Herald on 14th July but don't have an online subscription so cannot see it closely. Monaro doesn't come up in a search for that date.

I also have found printed use of the Monaro name on 23rd June 1968.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#20 Posted : Monday, 26 March 2018 6:30:09 PM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,354

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 26 post(s)
Happy Birthday for the Name Monaro is an interesting one then, I hope you work it out. Earliest I have is a memo that uses both terms, describing the cars as Kingswood and GTS coupe at the top but has a statement at the bottom saying "that they have accepted the identification Monaro in lieu of Kingswood, as also has the term "Premier' been dropped from Brougham." This is dated 26/2/68.

You are right Sun Herald page 23. (search "inside look at new Holden") It also states in the article that 3 GTSs have been entered in the London to Sydney marathon.

I shall take the Anniversary date of the car being the 22nd as this is the official release date.

I am happy if you wish to use some other date such as 23/6 when it first appears in external print, the 15th of the Lang Lang day or the 21st as the start of the convention.

Our anniversary cruise will be held on the 22nd of July, all Monaros are welcome.

Warren
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.146 seconds.