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KBM Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 19 July 2017 6:23:35 PM(UTC)
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i'm restoring a hk panel van to its original paint/interior specs but because it didn't come with its original motor/trans I've gone for 307,column shift powerglide,2.78 lsd banjo. i'm lucky enough to have a spare 16.7 ratio steering box in amongst my spares so do I use the close ratio box instead of the standard? with the lighter arse end of the pv will the 16.7 be easier to handle on dirt/loose gravel?
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 19 July 2017 6:58:07 PM(UTC)
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It depends on the date code of the 16.7:1 box. If it is F8 or G8 you should sell it to me! My yellow GTS327 has its original box and it is 1G8. The yellow GTS is only 42 cars behind in the Pagewood body plant and 174 cars ahead in the assembly plant so it needs either late F8 or early G8.

What size tyres are you planning to run?
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KBM Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 20 July 2017 12:41:26 PM(UTC)
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sorry mate the date code on the 16.7 box is 6l0 so 6th nov 1970. a bit late for both of us.interesting dates for your GTS327 my column and box are both 25F8 and thanks to Ben at HSS I know it was finish build date in the last week of July '68 in melb after the body come over from the Elizabeth plant.looks like we both have a two door built around the same time but as you'll probably tell me yours is better and probably worth 10x as much.
the tyre size at the moment is P215/65R14 on the back and P195/65R14 on the front also will have a set of stock 5"rims with 185/75R14 for special occasions. the decision hasn't been made on whether to go with hotwires or peanuts as I have both here
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 20 July 2017 4:26:38 PM(UTC)
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Ah, split plant build. Those get a bit confusing on HK-HG as they get the body plant's chassis number. Pretty cool that the box and column align, probably a fluke as the column went in at the body plant afaik and the box at the assembly plant.

I'd probably keep the original box if it is in OK condition and see if you like it or not.
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KBM Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, 21 July 2017 7:30:32 PM(UTC)
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from what I can tell the painted "hard trimmed body" came from Elisabeth and transported to melb to have all mechanicals and front sheet metal installed. the column and box where probably sitting on the line together at the time. I presume the "hard trimmed body" refers to the main shell as I would assume melb didn't have the facilities to assemble/weld the panelvan body and only finish assembled to client order. but does trimmed body mean dash/steering column?

I think i'll keep the original setup
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, 21 July 2017 7:57:47 PM(UTC)
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Whole body is finished and painted including doors and end gates, all glass fitted, all body trim fitted. Interior is afaik limited to headlining. The idea is they are weather sealed, not certain how firewall holes are sealed hence my comment about the stewing column. HK-HG get the Elizabeth body tag and chassis number. After the end of 1969 they would also get an Elizabeth ADR plate.
Here is a Hard trimmed and painted HK GTS, waiting to later go through the assembly plant
https://www.google.com.a...&iact=mrc&uact=8

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castellan Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, 22 July 2017 6:23:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: KBM Go to Quoted Post
i'm restoring a hk panel van to its original paint/interior specs but because it didn't come with its original motor/trans I've gone for 307,column shift powerglide,2.78 lsd banjo. i'm lucky enough to have a spare 16.7 ratio steering box in amongst my spares so do I use the close ratio box instead of the standard? with the lighter arse end of the pv will the 16.7 be easier to handle on dirt/loose gravel?


More to the point the steering ratio will not effect the handling, but going too low or too high in relation to the front is no good.
I don't think that the P van is lighter in the rear than a sedan.
HT 1274KG Van
HT 1276KG Sedan
A good shock that I found on dirt roads is the Monroe GT gas it's magic for corrugated crap, it uses a flat valve that works so well for dirt roads.
I did not like the shock much at first but when I hit dirt it soon changed my mind, it's a bit too plush on bitumen flat roads with small movements for me but when the going gets harder it's good.
Small bumps and corrugated roads it pisses over everything by far. I don't think they come in lowered form.
castellan Offline
#8 Posted : Saturday, 22 July 2017 6:31:26 PM(UTC)
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They are called Monroe GT Gas reflex tec.
Sandaro Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, 23 July 2017 1:29:02 PM(UTC)
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I love 16.7 ratio, its a joy to twist quickly through bends etc. At parking you'll have no trouble with 195s on the front. Ive got 215s, and if they're a little down on pressure you feel it parking
KBM Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, 24 July 2017 1:20:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sandaro Go to Quoted Post
I love 16.7 ratio, its a joy to twist quickly through bends etc. At parking you'll have no trouble with 195s on the front. Ive got 215s, and if they're a little down on pressure you feel it parking


I understand about the under pressure bit, Until recently I had 235's on the front of my brougham and even with the 16.7 if the pressure was down you didn't need the gym for an upper body workout.


as far as lighter in the arse end, with those figures maybe that comment should be in the post about holden myths.
I've got new GT gas shockers on the back, not sure if they're the reflex or not. I'll check next time i'm under there.
for the corrugated roads would I be better off with the original 2 stage springs or 6 leaf springs? I'll be using the van as a work/promotional vehicle but it wont be carrying huge weights in the back, as I grow Hazelnuts and fully packed the van would only carry around 150kg.
HK1837 Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 24 July 2017 1:31:02 PM(UTC)
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I'd just get some straight oil shocks. Never liked gas shocks on any Holden or Torana. Monroe still make them I think, and if not you can get new gas ones modified to original GMH spec and no gas.
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castellan Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 24 July 2017 4:10:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: KBM Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Sandaro Go to Quoted Post
I love 16.7 ratio, its a joy to twist quickly through bends etc. At parking you'll have no trouble with 195s on the front. Ive got 215s, and if they're a little down on pressure you feel it parking


I understand about the under pressure bit, Until recently I had 235's on the front of my brougham and even with the 16.7 if the pressure was down you didn't need the gym for an upper body workout.


as far as lighter in the arse end, with those figures maybe that comment should be in the post about holden myths.
I've got new GT gas shockers on the back, not sure if they're the reflex or not. I'll check next time i'm under there.
for the corrugated roads would I be better off with the original 2 stage springs or 6 leaf springs? I'll be using the van as a work/promotional vehicle but it wont be carrying huge weights in the back, as I grow Hazelnuts and fully packed the van would only carry around 150kg.


I had a 253 HG Premer with ute springs in the back when I got it, back in 1982 and I felt is was a much better setup than the fords sedan leaf springs of the day easily, but as to leaf springs like in the AU falcon utes they have 4 types of setups I tonne, then normal and then the XR type at about 500KG, sure the XR softer sprung type is the way to go I would think for best handing.
Now the RV type Falcon ute has a setup with 2 radius 2 rods set up to better control the rear, I have driven one and it's good and they are a 1 tonne.

But one thing I have to say about leaf springs, is that if the spring binds in flexing due to cornering loads, that is they are flexing side ways with a binding that acts as another spring factor that can upset the apple cart a bit flicking back at times, Falcon leaf were bad for that, so they recommend to let the spring shackle not be too stiff and that can stop that, rubber bushes not plastic ones.

But from my experience with going to low in the rear to the front can make the back more of a oversteering thing and not in a good way, because then she likes to go into them ditch's easy, so the bugger tends to want to go down into them spoon drains once it starts going down even with throttle control, especially when it's greasy as.

I recon up to 1 inch higher in the rear and no more and no lower than flat level and too low is just crap on dirt roads, because once you bottom out that can be the start of when you loose control.
castellan Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 24 July 2017 4:15:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I'd just get some straight oil shocks. Never liked gas shocks on any Holden or Torana. Monroe still make them I think, and if not you can get new gas ones modified to original GMH spec and no gas.


It's all in the valving, gas has no factor apart from reducing heat fade.
Dr Terry Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, 24 July 2017 4:25:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I'd just get some straight oil shocks. Never liked gas shocks on any Holden or Torana. Monroe still make them I think, and if not you can get new gas ones modified to original GMH spec and no gas.


It's all in the valving, gas has no factor apart from reducing heat fade.


Not true. Oil shocks have no effect on ride height. The pressure of the gas in gas shocks will increase ride height (marginally) & make the springs appear stiffer. The lighter the car, the more noticeable this becomes, especially in the rear.

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HK1837 Offline
#15 Posted : Monday, 24 July 2017 5:01:53 PM(UTC)
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I had gas in my LX hatchback, took them out and fitted decent oil shocks and it was perfect. I think I used Boge at the time. Same with my HJ ute and sedan, other HQ's and WB. People used to fit KYB or Gabriel gas, and they were too stiff, probably why so many chassis cracks today. Fit some decent oil shocks and they are heaps better.
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KBM Offline
#16 Posted : Monday, 24 July 2017 6:39:44 PM(UTC)
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springs will be at standard height with off the shelf ( twenty year old and in good nick) pedders v8 front coils and the back is still undecided.

castellan has good points about ride height, a bit higher at the back's ok but don't go to low on the front when your on dirt. clearance is the most important aspect but in saying that I don't want to be to light/bouncy on the back or i'll loose traction on a corner. I'm not talking race cars but v8,lsd and dirt in early Holdens can be an eye opener. been there done that! stiffer springs or two stage with soft first stage. which is better?
castellan Offline
#17 Posted : Tuesday, 25 July 2017 9:59:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: KBM Go to Quoted Post
springs will be at standard height with off the shelf ( twenty year old and in good nick) pedders v8 front coils and the back is still undecided.

castellan has good points about ride height, a bit higher at the back's ok but don't go to low on the front when your on dirt. clearance is the most important aspect but in saying that I don't want to be to light/bouncy on the back or i'll loose traction on a corner. I'm not talking race cars but v8,lsd and dirt in early Holdens can be an eye opener. been there done that! stiffer springs or two stage with soft first stage. which is better?


As to stages, With dirt bikes endruo bikes mainly have a softer initial movement for small bumps, but MX it does not take small bumps into account as it's more for big jumps.
Enduro setup will save your arse on long rides, MX will kill you, but you can back off the damping to save that a bit, but you win and loose.

With the rear spring in the old Holden you would have to work out how the pressure increase works between both the spring types. I would think that the 2 stage would be better for more weight carrying.
castellan Offline
#18 Posted : Tuesday, 25 July 2017 10:41:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I'd just get some straight oil shocks. Never liked gas shocks on any Holden or Torana. Monroe still make them I think, and if not you can get new gas ones modified to original GMH spec and no gas.


It's all in the valving, gas has no factor apart from reducing heat fade.


Not true. Oil shocks have no effect on ride height. The pressure of the gas in gas shocks will increase ride height (marginally) & make the springs appear stiffer. The lighter the car, the more noticeable this becomes, especially in the rear.

Dr Terry


I think it's the other way round making the springs appear lighter initially, but it's all in the valving.

In my VY SS ute the second set of front shocks I went and got the original from Holden, not the ones Monroe sell to the public because I liked the valving Holden came with, not the best but ok and cheap, but when I got the next set they were Monroe GT reflex.
I hated them, it made the car feel floaty on smooth roads and going around corners made it feel like I needed a stronger sway bar at the front and when it hit a reasonable bump it was too stiff, but if you were up it then it all worked fine, so I thought I am going to toss them and go back to originals, but then I went out to the ranch that has a dirt road leading to it and I was just blown away how good they were, so I was ok with them, not to mention a real good bastard of a bitumen road driven flat out with twist and turns and big bumps up and down proved them to be real good, better than the Koni gas adjustable on compression and big dips at high speed, the problem with them Koni is as you adjust them is that you can not adjust rebound and compression separately, so it gets too stiff rebound due to the valving not being what you want it to truly be.

You can go to Holden and order std shocks at a good price but I do believe that Monroe in Australia are packing up and going to China due to when Holden and Toyota close down.
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