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skidmark Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 21 July 2016 10:42:24 PM(UTC)
skidmark

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Most engine timing specs quote an "initial" setting, such as 4 degrees. I'm interested in the next step in setting the timing. Some alternatives are: advance by another 2 degrees & go for a test drive; set idle to 1500 and turn dissy till engine runs "best", then reset idle ; or connect vacuum gauge & set idle to 1500 & turn dissy to achieve highest vacuum.
I used the second method and the engine (chev 327 which I believe is standard) appeared to run best (smoother & faster) by advancing the timing & when I checked it back at normal idle, it was advanced off the scale! Haven't had a chance to test drive it yet.
Just wondering whats a good method to improve the initial setting.

Edited by user Thursday, 21 July 2016 11:01:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

commodorenut Offline
#2 Posted : Friday, 22 July 2016 6:33:40 AM(UTC)
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Always disconnect and plug the vac advance - that's what will be causing it to advance off the scale at idle (and high vacuum) giving you a false reading.

On a stock or mild motor, I generally start at the factory recommendation, and work up from there. 2 or 4 degrees more is usually OK - eg on the EFI 5L, GMH suggest 10°BTDC static advance, but I generally go to 14°BTDC, which gives it a little more response - but you have to have a keen ear to listen for pinging under load, and then back it off (or let the knock sensors do that - but the reaction time & resulting "pulling out" of timing bogs it down). Find a decent hill in your local area, short shift to 2nd to load it up, and accelerate up the hill - if it rattles, you have too much advance. Do this with a hot (operating temp) engine, as a cold engine won't ping as readily, due to the cooler combustion chamber.

Fuel choice will play a big part in how much advance you can add - running ULP91 in a carby V8 designed for super will put you behind the 8-ball to start with - you may need to pull timing advance out of it (ie down to a lower number) to prevent pinging. Likewise running 98 in something designed for 91 will give you a lot more headroom to advance it much further before pinging.

On a modified motor, it's best to seek a suggestion from the cam supplier, or if you've gone even further (more compression, larger valves etc) then getting the dizzy regraphed to suit is a good investment, and the workshop who performs this (you will need to give them all the specs) will suggest the best starting point for you.

Setting the idle mixture is when you normally use a vacuum gauge - aiming for the highest vac at idle. You can also do this without a gauge, as you can hear the revs pick up slightly at the mixture's "sweet spot" which corresponds with maximum vacuum at idle.
Cheers,

Mick
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griffo on 27/07/2016(UTC)
Dr Terry Offline
#3 Posted : Friday, 22 July 2016 8:33:22 AM(UTC)
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commodorenut has covered most of it, but most importantly all of the above applies only to factory stock motors.

Cars with different camshafts require totally different advance characteristics, which is why it's so important to get your distributor re-curved to suit any modified motor. Having said that, manufacturers settings from 40/50 years ago are not necessarily going to be perfect with today's fuels in stock cars anyway.

Getting back to the 'timing by ear' method, pinging as well as mid-range & top-end performance is more critical than using ignition timing to attain a smooth idle.

Most engines are happier with more advance at idle, but it is dangerous to go too far. 2 or 4 degrees over-advance at idle is fine, but the same amount of over-advance at 3,000 rpm can cause detonation which can destroy an engine.

I notice many European manufacturers during the 60s & 70s didn't specify an initial setting at all. Their method of timing was to disconnect the vacuum & set the engine (for example) at 30 degrees total @ 3,500 rpm. This might sound to be a difficult chore, but trust me, the engine will be better off with this method.

As I said as long as the vacuum & centrifugal advance mechanisms are in good working order, (& you do have a good "ear') 'timing by ear' is probably the best method overall, if you don't have access to a dyno.

Dr Terry

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griffo on 27/07/2016(UTC)
skidmark Offline
#4 Posted : Friday, 22 July 2016 9:19:49 PM(UTC)
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Thanks very much Mick & Dr Terry, that's what I was after.
griffo Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 27 July 2016 6:23:44 AM(UTC)
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Many thanks for that fellas.... been idle for decades and now getting back into it all again... its good how you share your experience over these tried methods...Thanked of course.
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