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castellan Offline
#41 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 8:08:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post


VL 3.0L unreliable Eh? that's total B/S,
VL Nissan Auto well I drove one from Brissy to Sydney and back and never complained about it, what's wrong about them most I know got more km out of the engines and manual and auto box than 3.3L and trimatic, would of cost more to recon as well for sure.

The AU ute on did not have the room in the tail that I wanted, so that's why I wanted a tray, nothing to do with weight as the XR6 springs would be fine for me a bit over loaded at times for short distance but I could live with that.


No its fact. They cracked heads like they were going out of fashion. Not the engine's fault I don't think as the Skylines didn't have the same issues, but how GMH installed them. Auto box was not a strong box, and would not have stood up to commercial duty. It was just an old Jatco box with overdrive IIRC.

I wanted a tray too in the FGIII, but the leaf springs were too weak for towing the rated towing capacity, and no good for a load.


Never heard of cracked heads in the VL being a problem, maybe you are on about as the years go by and they were not serviced correctly as with any alloy head corrosion is the worst especially back in them days because idiots just used water and let the radiator go past it's used by date, it was typical, people had a point of complaining about that the temp gauge is reading higher than normal and going right up or that the light is coming on Brick wall Laugh and most clowns just said don't drive it so hard and you will be right B/S disregarding that such a mentality is a crime in reality to the wellbeing of the engine.
How many idiots blame the engine for being the problemBlink when mainly it's the owners fault that things go wrong.
Commercial duty Huh well just put a cooler on the auto will save it, many do not know that keeping a auto temp down saves a auto a hell of a lot, If I could get away with a trimatic behind a good performing 308 van for more than 200,000km that I got from the wrecking yard, I think the Nissan box could do fine as the 3.0L does not pump out that much torque.

As for the Falcon ute's AU on it's simple as to change the rear springs for what you want, and the weight claimed for the manual box is just rubbish as it will be fine with the auto's weights, but caution as to idiots doing such will hammer the clutch around town driving, yes in my XG I had trouble taking off on steep hills when fully loaded 3.27 diff but there was a way to do it correctly, sure many would be stupid and let the clutch slip to much and rev to high giving the clutch too much of a hiding.
HK1837 Offline
#42 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 12:13:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post


VL 3.0L unreliable Eh? that's total B/S,
VL Nissan Auto well I drove one from Brissy to Sydney and back and never complained about it, what's wrong about them most I know got more km out of the engines and manual and auto box than 3.3L and trimatic, would of cost more to recon as well for sure.

The AU ute on did not have the room in the tail that I wanted, so that's why I wanted a tray, nothing to do with weight as the XR6 springs would be fine for me a bit over loaded at times for short distance but I could live with that.


No its fact. They cracked heads like they were going out of fashion. Not the engine's fault I don't think as the Skylines didn't have the same issues, but how GMH installed them. Auto box was not a strong box, and would not have stood up to commercial duty. It was just an old Jatco box with overdrive IIRC.

I wanted a tray too in the FGIII, but the leaf springs were too weak for towing the rated towing capacity, and no good for a load.


Never heard of cracked heads in the VL being a problem, maybe you are on about as the years go by and they were not serviced correctly as with any alloy head corrosion is the worst especially back in them days because idiots just used water and let the radiator go past it's used by date, it was typical, people had a point of complaining about that the temp gauge is reading higher than normal and going right up or that the light is coming on Brick wall Laugh and most clowns just said don't drive it so hard and you will be right B/S disregarding that such a mentality is a crime in reality to the wellbeing of the engine.
How many idiots blame the engine for being the problemBlink when mainly it's the owners fault that things go wrong.
Commercial duty Huh well just put a cooler on the auto will save it, many do not know that keeping a auto temp down saves a auto a hell of a lot, If I could get away with a trimatic behind a good performing 308 van for more than 200,000km that I got from the wrecking yard, I think the Nissan box could do fine as the 3.0L does not pump out that much torque.

As for the Falcon ute's AU on it's simple as to change the rear springs for what you want, and the weight claimed for the manual box is just rubbish as it will be fine with the auto's weights, but caution as to idiots doing such will hammer the clutch around town driving, yes in my XG I had trouble taking off on steep hills when fully loaded 3.27 diff but there was a way to do it correctly, sure many would be stupid and let the clutch slip to much and rev to high giving the clutch too much of a hiding.


No, it was when they were new. Heaps cracked in the 80's.
The Jatco box wouldn't have survived in a commercial, just not up to the task. Maybe if they used the box on the turbo engine. Regardless i'm pretty sure this Nissan engine and box was why the W size commercials were canned as the engine and box weren't suitable.

No it isn't as simple as changing the rear springs. The GVW and GCM of the car needs to be higher to effectively tow 2300kg. Just changing the springs does not increase the GVW or GCM.
The clutch was not suitable on manuals for towing, simple as that. This is why they autos had a higher towing capacity. Same with Holden utes. Probably didn't apply in XG though.

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Shearer Offline
#43 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 12:30:01 PM(UTC)
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I was always under the impression the VL's radiator was positioned lower than the engine. When the coolant was topped the engine wasn't bled of any air, therefore causing a hot spot in the head, which would lead to cracking the head.
HK1837 Offline
#44 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 12:32:08 PM(UTC)
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That was one of the reasons I heard. I know it was huge at the time, people who had GMH engines all their life were blowing up at how fragile the VL engine was.
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castellan Offline
#45 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 1:22:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Shearer Go to Quoted Post
I was always under the impression the VL's radiator was positioned lower than the engine. When the coolant was topped the engine wasn't bled of any air, therefore causing a hot spot in the head, which would lead to cracking the head.


Well that's the truth and of all radiators that have to be bled, most people just did not know and stuffed up the head.
HK1837 Offline
#46 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 1:29:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shearer Go to Quoted Post
I was always under the impression the VL's radiator was positioned lower than the engine. When the coolant was topped the engine wasn't bled of any air, therefore causing a hot spot in the head, which would lead to cracking the head.


Well that's the truth and of all radiators that have to be bled, most people just did not know and stuffed up the head.


Which was a problem to people that had Holden 6's all their life. Suddenly you had a fragile car that you couldn't treat the same way you'd treated your EH then HQ then VB.

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castellan Offline
#47 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 1:37:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
That was one of the reasons I heard. I know it was huge at the time, people who had GMH engines all their life were blowing up at how fragile the VL engine was.


The VL Nissan engine was not fragile at all, a mental mate I know had the turbo with the wick wound all the way up and 3 in exhaust and f me dead no on drives like that moron, the idiot never broke anything not even a clutch and that thing went like a rocket, he drove flat out everywhere, I drove it and understood why, it was gutless as a 149 EH till you hit 3000rpm and then she just kicked in and took off, I found myself driving it like a idiot because it was such a sh1tbox to drive under 3000rpm and just a hoot over that.d'oh!

So there was nothing fragile about the VL at all.
castellan Offline
#48 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 1:43:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shearer Go to Quoted Post
I was always under the impression the VL's radiator was positioned lower than the engine. When the coolant was topped the engine wasn't bled of any air, therefore causing a hot spot in the head, which would lead to cracking the head.


Well that's the truth and of all radiators that have to be bled, most people just did not know and stuffed up the head.


Which was a problem to people that had Holden 6's all their life. Suddenly you had a fragile car that you couldn't treat the same way you'd treated your EH then HQ then VB.



Sure that's true in that regard and that's with disregard, as many people did back in the day.
Try that crap with any modern day engine and your up for a hell of a shock and big money.
HK1837 Offline
#49 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 1:51:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shearer Go to Quoted Post
I was always under the impression the VL's radiator was positioned lower than the engine. When the coolant was topped the engine wasn't bled of any air, therefore causing a hot spot in the head, which would lead to cracking the head.


Well that's the truth and of all radiators that have to be bled, most people just did not know and stuffed up the head.


Which was a problem to people that had Holden 6's all their life. Suddenly you had a fragile car that you couldn't treat the same way you'd treated your EH then HQ then VB.



Sure that's true in that regard and that's with disregard, as many people did back in the day.
Try that crap with any modern day engine and your up for a hell of a shock and big money.


Which is another reason why the VL engine was not suited to commercials. Bricklayers and builders drove their tonners around without touching it for like 3 years other than topping up the oil. No coolant, just water. Can't do that with a VL.

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HK1837 Offline
#50 Posted : Sunday, 18 February 2018 1:53:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
That was one of the reasons I heard. I know it was huge at the time, people who had GMH engines all their life were blowing up at how fragile the VL engine was.


The VL Nissan engine was not fragile at all, a mental mate I know had the turbo with the wick wound all the way up and 3 in exhaust and f me dead no on drives like that moron, the idiot never broke anything not even a clutch and that thing went like a rocket, he drove flat out everywhere, I drove it and understood why, it was gutless as a 149 EH till you hit 3000rpm and then she just kicked in and took off, I found myself driving it like a idiot because it was such a sh1tbox to drive under 3000rpm and just a hoot over that.d'oh!

So there was nothing fragile about the VL at all.


That is a VL turbo, stronger gearbox. But it'd not last in a commercial, it'd be dead within a year in the hands of brickies.

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castellan Offline
#51 Posted : Monday, 19 February 2018 6:37:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shearer Go to Quoted Post
I was always under the impression the VL's radiator was positioned lower than the engine. When the coolant was topped the engine wasn't bled of any air, therefore causing a hot spot in the head, which would lead to cracking the head.


Well that's the truth and of all radiators that have to be bled, most people just did not know and stuffed up the head.


Which was a problem to people that had Holden 6's all their life. Suddenly you had a fragile car that you couldn't treat the same way you'd treated your EH then HQ then VB.



Sure that's true in that regard and that's with disregard, as many people did back in the day.
Try that crap with any modern day engine and your up for a hell of a shock and big money.


Which is another reason why the VL engine was not suited to commercials. Bricklayers and builders drove their tonners around without touching it for like 3 years other than topping up the oil. No coolant, just water. Can't do that with a VL.


Builders and bricklayers ? I was in the game for 44 years and I don't think they are any different to anyone in servicing a car or in how they are driving such, other than they may be loaded up and driven more than most.

I am not talking about old crappy cars and idiots or fools I am on about new too about maybe around 10 years old as anything beyond that is just rubbish to talk about really, it's like how long is a peace of string then.

That idiot I know with the turbo used crap oil and nothing less than 10,000km oil changes, when it should of been full syn and 5000km oil changes and he was a ignorant d head builder that just never listens to anyone, I even pointed out in the book the servicing program is 5000km.
HK1837 Offline
#52 Posted : Monday, 19 February 2018 7:31:25 AM(UTC)
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I will repeat myself again. I am talking about new cars or if not close to new. The traditional trade buyer of tonners or utes from HQ to WB flogged them to death. They overloaded them, dragged around heavy non-brakes trailers, rarely changed oil or greased anything. Yet they survived to be 10 years old. I saw huge amounts of them come though wreckers in the early to late 80’s and the cabs were normally OK but the mechanicals were shot. Some of the engines when you removed the rocker covers were like 2” thick licorice inside. The 6cyl engines held water but the V8 ones had corroded intakes and timing covers. Auto boxes had black or burnt fluid, manual 4spd were that growly and when you opened them up every gear was stuffed. Diffs were often empty of oil and shocks and suspension and steering rubbers all gone. That is what 250,000km and stuff all servicing did. There is no way the VL Nissan stuff would cop that sort of life and keep going that long.
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castellan Offline
#53 Posted : Monday, 19 February 2018 8:27:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I will repeat myself again. I am talking about new cars or if not close to new. The traditional trade buyer of tonners or utes from HQ to WB flogged them to death. They overloaded them, dragged around heavy non-brakes trailers, rarely changed oil or greased anything. Yet they survived to be 10 years old. I saw huge amounts of them come though wreckers in the early to late 80’s and the cabs were normally OK but the mechanicals were shot. Some of the engines when you removed the rocker covers were like 2” thick licorice inside. The 6cyl engines held water but the V8 ones had corroded intakes and timing covers. Auto boxes had black or burnt fluid, manual 4spd were that growly and when you opened them up every gear was stuffed. Diffs were often empty of oil and shocks and suspension and steering rubbers all gone. That is what 250,000km and stuff all servicing did. There is no way the VL Nissan stuff would cop that sort of life and keep going that long.


I agree with that, but your average Aussie was just as stupid and lot of them red and blue engines were lucky to get to 80,000miles 130,000km let alone 60,000miled 100,000km with real d heads that did not service them correctly.

If you got 250,000km on a engine that was bloody good going and well serviced.
castellan Offline
#54 Posted : Monday, 19 February 2018 8:42:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: griffo Go to Quoted Post
Interesting you say that Castellan...At the end of 2017 Ford were the market leader in 4x4 sales...albeit with the Ranger...Yes over Toyota Hilux.
I think Hilux were the largest selling vehicle including 2x4's....but not 4z4's.
I live out near Beaudesert Qld,and the guys at Scenic Ford have a yard full of them(Rangers) and Tojo yard has a cpl.They are a tad cheaper of course than a Hilux.
So they have maybe listened to the market as you say but all a bit to late to save the Falcon.
A Bit like GM-H with the WB Stato giving the rear seat passengers more leg room to match the Fairlane....All to little to late.


Yes the ranger is selling as you say, but I was on about from 1972 and on a XD-E-F-G-H 4X4 would of been a good selling ute as would a AU on 4x4.

The WB Statesman was head and shoulders above the 1980's Ford ZJ on Fairlane and LTD looked like crap and the HZ Statesman was not a bad thing, true that the ZH Fairlane looked great and the P5 LTD was a great car back in the day.
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#55 Posted : Monday, 19 February 2018 9:42:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I will repeat myself again. I am talking about new cars or if not close to new. The traditional trade buyer of tonners or utes from HQ to WB flogged them to death. They overloaded them, dragged around heavy non-brakes trailers, rarely changed oil or greased anything. Yet they survived to be 10 years old. I saw huge amounts of them come though wreckers in the early to late 80’s and the cabs were normally OK but the mechanicals were shot. Some of the engines when you removed the rocker covers were like 2” thick licorice inside. The 6cyl engines held water but the V8 ones had corroded intakes and timing covers. Auto boxes had black or burnt fluid, manual 4spd were that growly and when you opened them up every gear was stuffed. Diffs were often empty of oil and shocks and suspension and steering rubbers all gone. That is what 250,000km and stuff all servicing did. There is no way the VL Nissan stuff would cop that sort of life and keep going that long.


I agree with that, but your average Aussie was just as stupid and lot of them red and blue engines were lucky to get to 80,000miles 130,000km let alone 60,000miled 100,000km with real d heads that did not service them correctly.

If you got 250,000km on a engine that was bloody good going and well serviced.


The difference is though there was a huge amount of red 6's and 253's available cheap from crashed cars, let alone from other stuff that wreckers pulled apart simply to wreck. I remember the pre 1993/4-ish Taxi fleet in Newcastle, nearly everyone still used HZ Holdens (before the rules changed where Taxis were only allowed to be 7 years old max). The local big Holden wrecker used to wreck every HX-HZ they could find, used to buy HZ Statesmans, Premiers and Kingswoods that would be worth $25-$30k today for $2000 at auctions and wreck them for panels, doors, engines etc for the Taxi fleet to use. Back then good HZ doors (I mean real good with factory paint and no rust) would pull $300+ a side. There was an auto trans place here that used to do Trimatic or BW35/40 for $300-ish exchange fitted (I know because I bought an XF ex-cab in 1994 that had just hit 7 years and it needed a BW40 transmission). The average tradie had access to this too, so if his red 6 shat itself at 100-125,000kM, he'd just get a $300-$400 good used low kM red 6 (that had been looked after) fitted that would see him out to 250,000kM. So many VL's cracked heads that the price of good used low kM VL engines was high, plus they were shortlived. Whereas the V6's from VN on were everywhere. The local Commodore wrecker used to sell good ones fitted for $695, and they threw away half of them as they had a huge oversupply. They even used to throw away good blue 2.85's with nothing wrong with them, they kept the accessories and the heads. I remember buying dozens of them at a time for $5 each rather than see them go in the bin. I used to strip them for the rods and dump the rest in the scrap bin. All of them were mostly still great bore and piston wise, most cams still looked good too.


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