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Brisbanecruiser Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 26 September 2017 3:09:43 PM(UTC)
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Any HJ's out there that can help me out with this one?

I'm wanting to know if the number stamped in your fire wall (just above your heater box) matches the serial number on your compliance plate? I ask because theres a staggering amount of conflicting information through the forums whether these numbers should match or not. And it looks like theres hard evidence on both sides of the argument. Ive read that some plants didn't make bodies and that their body numbers never align with chassis numbers. I've also read that some single owner cars don't have these numbers matched. Basically I'm just trying to figure out if body numbers should be paired with serial / chassis numbers. Google swings in the direction that they don't need to match to be an original body, but I want to be sure what I'm looking at.

If you've got a HJ and can chime in that would be great, and the more original the better for this cause.
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 26 September 2017 4:31:31 PM(UTC)
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Whomever says that any Pagewood (Sydney) HQ-mid HZ (when the firewall number ceased) should match anything is speaking out of their proverbial and have no idea what they are talking about. It is theoretically possible for the Pagewood chassis number numerical portion to match the Pagewood firewall number numerical portion, but it is by accident rather than by design. The numbers have very different purposes and were never intended to align.

Elizabeth used a cowl number for a short while but it ceased during HQ.

The firewall number was stamped in the Pagewood body plant. This number was used to track the vehicle through the assembly plant, and it appears on Pagewood broadcast sheets. It is essentially mimicking the process used for HD-HG where the actual chassis number was on the firewall. When the cars were being assembled the last two digits of that number were marked in chalk on all the components from the painted front panels (painted in body plant, separated on a different conveyor and appear again in the assembly plant), rear axle and whatever other components were designated for the car with those two digits.

At the end of the assembly plant, right before completion the chassis number was stamped, and a VIN plate stamped. Neither of these numbers were known or allocated to any particular vehicle until that point. So you can see it is impossible for any of the numbers to align other than by sheer fluke. This changed a bit later in Pagewood HQ when the PSN (off the VIN plate) becomes the body number on the body tag, but the firewall number simply counted up. It does roughly trend upwards with the chassis number numerical portion, but the numbers differ by anything from a single digit to a few hundred. Here are a couple of Pagewood Holdens for your reference (I've replaced a digit by X in each, but it is the same digit in chassis and firewall numbers), you can see the correlation and how they are sometimes close, on the rare occasion match and mostly jump around. The reason they move about is the firewall numbers are consecutive at the end of the body plant, but they enter the assembly plant according to the schedule, and cars get all jumbled up, so by the end of the assembly plant where chassis numbers are consecutive (other than repeats eg BHJ12345S followed by BHJ12345SR) the firewall numbers are jumbled.

Also throw into this mix Elizabeth bodies (vans and cab-chassis and later in HZ utes) that Pagewood assembled. These had no Pagewood firewall number but got a Pagewood chassis number. So these would also screw any correlation up if there was any.

EHQ2X479S 2X478S
EHQ2X813S 2X902S
EHQ30X39S 30X57S
AHJ0X626S 0X498S (my HJ Premier)
BHJ26X00S 26X00S (this one is a fluke as it matches)

Hope this helps.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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Brisbanecruiser on 26/09/2017(UTC)
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#3 Posted : Tuesday, 26 September 2017 6:18:50 PM(UTC)
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Thanks HK1837,

I'm still a little curious on my car. My compliance, chassis, vin and model tags match 100% but this firewall is out by 629. Is that to much?
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 26 September 2017 8:27:02 PM(UTC)
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No. Normal.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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Brisbanecruiser on 26/09/2017(UTC)
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#5 Posted : Tuesday, 26 September 2017 8:34:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
No. Normal.


Applause Thanks very much mate!

Holden Historical Services threw me a curve ball there, saying the chassis had to match the fire wall for it to be original body. Jeez that had me worried for a moment. Thankfully you could chime in, and the other forums support the same logic.

Edited by user Tuesday, 26 September 2017 8:42:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 26 September 2017 8:46:38 PM(UTC)
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Are you sure you didn't misread what Ben said? He knows better than I do how those numbers work.
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#7 Posted : Tuesday, 3 October 2017 11:39:30 PM(UTC)
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I thought the number stamped into the firewall was the body number and should match the number stamped into the Body ID Plate.

I spoke to Ben recently about the numbering systems for the big holdens and I still haven't been able to grasp how it all works esp as the system is not the same across all assembly plants.

Cheers
D.

Edited by user Tuesday, 3 October 2017 11:40:19 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, 4 October 2017 6:07:25 AM(UTC)
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No it doesn't match. A HQ at Pagewood had 3 or 4 identifiers:

PSN (end of the VIN).
Chassis number (on rail and safety compliance plate).
Body number (on body tag). Consecutive for all bodies out of the Pagewood body plant, mid HQ becomes the PSN except for imported bodies (see below).
Vehicle Serial Number (on firewall), but only if the body is out of the Pagewood body plant. Pagewood also assembled van and cab-chassis bodies from Elizabeth and there are also random other imports for whatever reason.

The Holden and Statesman numbering systems is identical to Torana from the same body and assembly plants at the same time. Look at LJ for example, Elizabeth body number is a cumulative total for each model, Acacia Ridge is a cumulative total for all bodies and later becomes the PSN. They all did things their own way, but most got pulled into line mid HQ when circumstances dictated that they all had to use the PSN as the body number. This couldn't happen at Elizabeth though as they would use up PSN's too quickly as they exported so many bodies, but this too changed around August 1977.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Brisbanecruiser Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 4 October 2017 12:36:44 PM(UTC)
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HK's right, I did read Bens email incorrectly, and have since verified with him that my firewall stamp is the matching body for my chassis despite there being a 600 unit variance between the two.
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